Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, June 06 2003 @ 12:52 PM CDT

This shit gives the word \"libertarian\" a shit name. To bad.

These people have nothing whatsoever to do with anything anarchists should support.

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Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, June 06 2003 @ 12:56 PM CDT

Can somebody dig up the Chomsky quote where he said that living under a free market libertarian society would be \"like hell on earth\"?

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Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, June 06 2003 @ 12:59 PM CDT

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Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, June 06 2003 @ 01:00 PM CDT

Yes, I agree with the first comment. The Free State Project advocates private ownership of everything. There\'s nothing free about that.

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Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, June 06 2003 @ 01:06 PM CDT

Government power = evil.

Private and corporate power = good.

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Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, June 06 2003 @ 01:38 PM CDT

Hee, hee. I suppose we can look forward to libertarians moving out of the other 49 states. I suppose that\'s an appealing prospect.

The reality is that some significant part of the government structures that regulate business also operate to benefit dominant businesses (the biggest corporations, the biggest industries.) So some of the pro-business, anti-government types might actually find themselves butting heads with big corporations when they start trying to dismantle things.

The military-industrial complex, the prison-industrial complex, forestry, energy - these are tightly-intertwined consolidations of public and private power. They are \"big government\" and they will not go quietly.

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Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, June 06 2003 @ 02:20 PM CDT

What do you all think of the idea of anarchists throughout the country all moving to one city and trying to change it in an anarchist direction (not through elctoral means though, like the \"Libertarians\")?

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Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, June 06 2003 @ 02:29 PM CDT

Maybe all the anti-capitalists could move to the same state as the libertarians, and with the two movements combined we could take out all structures of authority! Woohoo!

Wait that\'s kind of a good idea isnt it? I mean seriously.

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Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, June 06 2003 @ 02:32 PM CDT

not such a bad idea.. maybe we could all go to one city for six months at a time, build up as big of a base as possible, then leave a skeleton crew and move on..

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Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, June 06 2003 @ 02:42 PM CDT

wow, its just like dungeons and dragons!

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Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, June 06 2003 @ 11:59 PM CDT

I still have my naive hopes of a truly free state, I just wish people could get it together and govern themselves so we wouldn\'t even need authority in the first place. The people who complain the loudest about the cops always seem to be the ones constantly calling them to their homes with their poor ability to take control and responsibility in their lives.

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Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, June 06 2003 @ 03:31 PM CDT

I was thinking the same thing (as Afghan) the first time I heard this. But I\'m not sure what we really have in common with these folks; I doubt they want to get rid of the prisons, the military, etc. Just the libraries...

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Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, June 06 2003 @ 03:32 PM CDT

Seems to me anarchists would be better at this than \'libertarians\' because those folks define their lives by their posessions, so moving, which involves selling your house, packing all your stuff up, etc., means a lot more to them than it does to us. Socialism adapts much better to nomads than capitalism.

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Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, June 06 2003 @ 07:59 PM CDT

Sounds like a neverending Star Trek convention.

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Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, June 06 2003 @ 08:36 PM CDT

Rhode Island and Hawaii were eliminated because of their \"hopelessly statist political cultures,\" the group\'s research committee decided.

Ummmmmmmm....
Can\'t speak for Hawaii, but if these fuckers tried to pull this shit in little Rhody, it wouldn\'t be statists who\'d be slashing their tyres and snipping their phone lines. Hopelessly progressive is probably more like it.

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Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, June 06 2003 @ 08:43 PM CDT

You can\'t have anarchy in one city. The surrounding gov\'ts would crush it. Remember the Paris & Kwanju Communes

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Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, June 06 2003 @ 08:50 PM CDT

Whatever happened to the Big Libertarian Cruise Ship (tm) that they were going to build? Inquiring minds down at the anarchist torpedo factory want to know.

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Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, June 06 2003 @ 09:42 PM CDT

I was thinking about fisheries depletion. Maybe we should treat long-line, drift-net, and seabed-trawlers like whaling ships.

And, if we take over Rhode Island, we\'d have some nice bases, too.

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Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, June 06 2003 @ 09:42 PM CDT

bwaa hahahahahahahahaha!!!!!

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Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, June 06 2003 @ 06:49 PM CDT

The Libertarians don\'t intend to remove _any_ structures of authority. They want to end all social programs, repeal a few criminal laws, continue stuffing the prisons, and leave all the authority figures where they are.

A Libertarian governor, mayor, or chief of police would treat anarchists with the same brutality as Republican governors, mayors, and chiefs of police.

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Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, June 06 2003 @ 07:00 PM CDT

\"Now, there are consistent libertarians, people like Murray Rothbard [American academic]--and if you just read the world that they describe, it\'s a world so full of hate that no human being would want to live in it. This is a world where you don\'t have roads because you don\'t see any reason why you should cooperate in building a road that you\'re not going to use: if you want a road, you get together with a bunch of other people who are going to use that road and you build it, then you charge people to ride on it. If you don\'t like the pollution from somebody\'s automobile, you take them to court and you litigate it. Who would want to live in a world like that? It\'s a world built on hatred.\"

Understanding Power: The Indispensable Chomsky
pg. 200, paragraph 5

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Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, June 06 2003 @ 07:08 PM CDT

WRONG. They advocate cutting the military budget (drastically), which, incidently, would hurt mainly universities and researchers where a huge portion of the money goes. The military machine would remain nearly unchanged. They want to end the drug war because there\'s huge amounts of money to made by exploiting people\'s misery and addictions.

You can bet that when their precious property \'rights\' are threatened they will kill whomever they need to to restore \'order\'.

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Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, June 06 2003 @ 05:59 PM CDT

We couldn\'t just move to a city to create an anarchist city. Even IF we could all agree on a place to move it\'d be a warzone as soon as we started trying to find places to live there.

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Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, June 06 2003 @ 04:38 PM CDT

FYI, they DO advocate getting rid of the military. They also want to get rid of the drug war and gun control legislation.

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Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, June 06 2003 @ 04:48 PM CDT

If you can stand the smell of all those racist libertarian reactionary bufords telling you to \"git off my land, faggot!\"

\"Libertarianism\" is fascism with flowers!

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Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, June 06 2003 @ 04:55 PM CDT

Just tell me where to sign. I would protect a truly free state with my life.

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Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, June 06 2003 @ 05:34 PM CDT

Whatever state they pick, we pick the runner up.

It looks like it\'s down to Wyoming or New Hampshire for them.

That way we are on opposite side of the U.S. from each other.

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Authored by: Anonymous on Saturday, June 07 2003 @ 01:24 AM CDT

What the hell is that supposed to mean \"Odin\"?

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Authored by: Anonymous on Saturday, June 07 2003 @ 02:07 AM CDT

I think that the comments about traveling to various cities to radicalize them are part of a very noxious trend among anarchists. What are you doing in your own cities? How much luck are you having with creating new anarchists where you live? Do you think it would be better to leave your own community and go to a foreign one, organize like hell for a few months, and then take off? That\'s pretty fucked up if you ask me.

What are all the people who live in these places that are graced with your temporary presence going to do when you leave? What kind of committment does that show? The truth of the matter is that we should all be organizing where we live right now. Yes it\'s hard, and wouldn\'t it be great if there were more of us, but that is exactly why we need to put down our roots in one place.

In addition, if we are serious about revolution then our passion needs to be set to forming the foundations of future society now. This takes time. It takes people staying in their communities and organizing. I know that lots of us like to travel, and traveling isn\'t bad, but when it comes to building an anarchist society we need to be laying the groundwork in a very determined way. Without this foundation, the fascists will be able to crush us without effort when the shit hits the fan.

Put your passions to effective work. I, for one, am going to see an anarchist society before I die, how about you?

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Authored by: Anonymous on Saturday, June 07 2003 @ 02:42 AM CDT

For all their rhetoric the Libs are all statists.
Minarchists some of them but in the real world some public or private police force is always necersary to enforce property rights.They don\'t deserve the \'libertarian\' label let alone some of these thieves think they can steal \'anarchy\'.
The low stealing dogs should all buy one big boat.(the Titanic two.)Good riddance.

http://world.std.com/~mhuben/leftlib.html

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Authored by: Anonymous on Saturday, June 07 2003 @ 03:27 AM CDT

The libertarian party is a joke. Most of their \"base\" support don\'t toe the line of the leadership- most are recruits from either marijuana conventions, many of whom did not vote during election time or ended up voting for Nade, or a recruits from gun shows, who may not agree with the other principles. Most of the LP base are not the corporatists that the leadership is.

I can work with libertarians of many stripes, but not with the LP leadership.

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Authored by: Anonymous on Saturday, June 07 2003 @ 05:23 AM CDT

progressive = statist

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Authored by: Anonymous on Saturday, June 07 2003 @ 01:03 PM CDT

It\'d be fun while it lasted!

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Authored by: Anonymous on Saturday, June 07 2003 @ 03:42 PM CDT

Rhode Island \"hopelessly statist\"? uhoh...i\'m moving there soon. Is it really?

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Authored by: Anonymous on Saturday, June 07 2003 @ 06:33 PM CDT

\"libertarians\" are capitalists who have a very poor understanding of economics. the state apparatus exists to the extent that it does in order to maintain property. if you eliminate the irs, or big chunks of military or most social services, etc., property will not last a year.

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Authored by: Anonymous on Saturday, June 07 2003 @ 11:25 PM CDT

Corporate power = government-backed power. Libertarians aren\'t pro-corporate, since the corporate license, which protects the company from liability for it\'s actions, is a GOVERNMENT creation.

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Authored by: Anonymous on Saturday, June 07 2003 @ 11:27 PM CDT

That\'s not nice (and fortunately, it\'s not true either)

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Authored by: Anonymous on Saturday, June 07 2003 @ 11:31 PM CDT

Continue stuffing the prisons? With who? It seems to me that the only reason they\'re currently being stuffed is b/c we\'re throwing harmless drug abusers in there. Libertarians certianly aren\'t going to keep the prisons full of people who choose to hurt themselves!

Where are you getting your information? Many of these posts seem to be written by people who know nothing about the libertarian political philosophy.

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Authored by: Anonymous on Saturday, June 07 2003 @ 11:36 PM CDT

How are Libertarians \"corporatists\"? Corporations are created by government intervention into the economy - the one thing that Libertarians can\'t stand!

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Authored by: Anonymous on Sunday, June 08 2003 @ 01:55 AM CDT

I think anarchists could put the Libertarian Party out of buisness if we included a bit more explicitly the fact that we are pro-choice when it comes to guns and drugs and that being an anti-capitalist does not automaticaly mean becoming some liberal social control freak.
Solid,
MarkResist

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Authored by: Anonymous on Sunday, June 08 2003 @ 04:03 AM CDT

We are talking about Libertarian Party libertarians, not the general use of the term.

Here\'s a sample from their \"Legislative Program\".

Phase out all direct and indirect subsidies to foreign nations, foreign companies, and foreign citizens.

Eliminate the double taxation of corporate profits.

Eliminate regulations and mandates that make companies less competitive and cost jobs.

Unilaterally end all domestic subsidy programs, trade barriers and tariffs.

End government economic meddling that results in depressions and recessions that destroy jobs.

================================================

Yes, the LP is corporatist.

As to the contradiction of \"Corporations are created by government intervention into the economy - the one thing that Libertarians can\'t stand!\" They aren\'t concerned with \"government intervention of the economy\", they are concerned with government intervention (taxation) of corporations. They want to elliminate government regulation of corporations, not corporations themselves!

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Authored by: Anonymous on Sunday, June 08 2003 @ 07:55 PM CDT

Unless, of course, you\'re talking about the kind of socialism that\'s based in community.

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Authored by: Anonymous on Sunday, June 08 2003 @ 08:33 AM CDT

Come on guys, I mean of course Libertarians arent anarchists, but if you read a lot of their manifestos and stuff, they do believe in doing away with some structures of authority. Yeah, they believe in free markets, which is dangerous, but it is dangerous nonsense. Government and its benefactors are so closely linked that its impossible to have state without capitalism and vice versa. They inadvertantly would make capitalism very vulnerable in their \"free state\".

And i\'ve also found libertarians very susceptible to anarchist ideas, i believe they are easy to \"convert\". They move to Wyoming or South Dakota, legalize hemp (isnt this a reason in itself to move with em?!) and prostitution (well...um), etc., and cut budgets, military, welfare, etc. The anarchists move in and provide anarchist programs to cover, you know, socialist programs of and for the masses, and counter any corporate agendas in the state. Ya know?

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Authored by: Anonymous on Sunday, June 08 2003 @ 12:26 PM CDT

\"Many of these posts seem to be written by people who know nothing about the libertarian political philosophy.\"

No, that\'s not right either. In case you haven\'t noticed this is an anarchist(where tha term libertarian came from) site. You, how ever, seem to have no understanding about anarchism.

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Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, June 09 2003 @ 03:53 AM CDT

Futhermore, they equate money with \"free speech\" which is also my main critique of the ACLU.

The corporation as an entity entitled to \"free speech\" and personhood, with all the rights and priveledges of a person, without the responsibility. This is the philosophy behind the \"Legislative Program\".

This is the debate I have with libertarians I know. The Alliance for Democracy arguements tend to hold sway with them, which creates a dominoe effect in the libertarian outlook. . . but thats another story.

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Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, June 09 2003 @ 03:26 PM CDT

no your wrong, most crimes are those commited against PROPERTY, the thing liberarians claim to uphold MOST

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Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, June 24 2003 @ 04:11 PM CDT

Amerika is the only country in which when one refers to libertarians they are talking about \"libertrian capitalists.\" I think they have had the privelage of naming themselves for too long now. Can we think of a new name to replace \"libertarians\" and \"anarchist capitalists\"?

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Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, June 25 2003 @ 07:42 PM CDT

I don\'t know what we\'d do it with, but that would be a good idea. Too bad the mainstream wouldn\'t pick up on it for a long time.

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Authored by: Anonymous on Sunday, July 27 2003 @ 02:37 AM CDT

The ideas of the LP are kind of like stalinist russia, only the opposite...

In soviet russia, after the revolution, you did away with the many capitalist masters under state protection, and enstated one capitalist master over all, who was also the state.

The LP on the other hand would get rid of the state protectors and strenghten the individual masters with the powers of the state.

ANARCHISTS(aka True Libertarians, aka Classic Libertarians) on the other take the 3rd option...we want to destroy(not reform or repair, but totally do away with the capitalist masters, their system of capitalism and the state which both oppresses us all and protects them. Basicly ALL FORMS OF AUTHORITY, not just one or two or a few, but ALL(note, when I say authority I refer to hirarchal authority, not authority meaning knowlage and expertes).




I really hope someone actually reads this since this is such an old news story...damn it.

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Authored by: Anonymous on Saturday, March 27 2004 @ 03:03 PM CST

I read it and am having some interesting discussions with LP folks right now.

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