Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, September 20 2002 @ 06:36 PM CDT

I\'m told that you have to spray vegetable oil on the street first to get the marbles to stick. Then the riot horses won\'t go anywhere.

We haven\'t tested that yet in DC, but one of these years we\'ll get around to it.

By the way, the Park Service keeps their horses in the city at a stable in Rock Creek Park near the Zoo.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, September 20 2002 @ 10:53 AM CDT

\"Security Council members Russia and France are expressing public opposition while privately calculating the consequences to themselves should they not join the United States. Even if they eventually miscalculate and oppose us, it is time to end the Iraqi menace.\"

This is what the Washington Times writes in another editorial in today\'s paper. I guess we could call the Times \"violence prone\" since they are calling for a war that would result in murder and property destruction. It seems that if we are going to talk about shutting down violent organizations, we should head out the the Times\' offices on New York Avenue.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, September 20 2002 @ 11:04 AM CDT

The great thing though, is that the police are in a lose/lose situation, if they try and stop the disruptions (say with a riot squad) then they end up blocking even more traffic.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, September 20 2002 @ 05:54 PM CDT

\"Anti-Capitalist Convergence (ACC) and other violence-prone groups will be in town next week to demonstrate against the annual meeting of the World Bank and the International Monetary Fund.\"

Wait so some violence prone organizations are demonstarting without harming people against great world organizations that maintain systems of power, corruption, exploitation, cohersion, and murder. Well I shure don\'t see what\'s got the protestors all upidy...

that was sarcasm incase someone was wondering.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, September 20 2002 @ 12:49 PM CDT

Doug you are right. In Toronto during the Tory Convenetion, on the second day of the convention the police kept us on the sidewalk by mobilizing hundereds of riot police, all of which had to set themseleves up on the road. They had to block traffic in a huge area, to compensate for the immense numbers of police they had mobilized against us. The police that day disrupted traffic ten times the amount that the 500 or demonstrators could have in a quick march on the street to the convention centre.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, September 20 2002 @ 01:04 PM CDT

Why don\'t you bring some caltrops, that would definitely stop trafic. ;)

[ Reply to This | # ]

Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, September 20 2002 @ 06:32 PM CDT

The Washington Times is to unimportant to protest or even complain to.

It WAS funny last year when they set up a special meeting with ACC members in the hopes of getting \"access\" to any stunts that we pulled. We gave them the benefit of the doubt, but after 9-11, that newspaper just wrote editorial after editorial that attacked activists.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, September 20 2002 @ 06:34 PM CDT

We\'ve had no luck getting the Greek anarchists or the Argentinian grandmothers to come. We were hoping for the latter, because they do such a thorough job with ATM machines.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, September 20 2002 @ 02:27 PM CDT

Hmmm, maybe people could deliberatly lure police riot squads in locations that will cause the most traffic jams. ;)

[ Reply to This | # ]

Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, September 20 2002 @ 05:53 PM CDT

I always loved that scene in the end of Animal House when they roll out a whole
mess of marbles onto the street. Can you imagine all the cops in riot gear slipping
on these as they run down the street. Anyone ever tried this tactic? Would
it actually work?

inscend

[ Reply to This | # ]

Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, September 20 2002 @ 03:20 PM CDT

Anyone know any good links on the Moonies? I know that the current Mrs. Moon has officially married her husband\'s \"spirit\" since the Rev. Moon died before meeting her. What do they own besides the Times?

[ Reply to This | # ]

Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, September 20 2002 @ 03:35 PM CDT

Are you sure Moon is dead?

[ Reply to This | # ]

Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, September 20 2002 @ 03:41 PM CDT

Yeah, I was there :)

[ Reply to This | # ]

Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, September 20 2002 @ 03:43 PM CDT

No wait, I\'m thinking of O16. Same idea though.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, September 20 2002 @ 03:47 PM CDT

Yes, why don\'t you target the Times? It sounded like an editorial in a small town newspaper. And I thought our newspapers were awful...

[ Reply to This | # ]

Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, September 20 2002 @ 04:30 PM CDT

they own potomac and atlantic video as well as some other media outlets in dc.
dc has not had a legetimate second newspaper since the washington star went under.
here are a list of some of moons front groups.
perhaps the WWP is in there somewhere.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, September 20 2002 @ 04:32 PM CDT

whoops
second try
http://www.perkel.com/politics/moonies/front.htm

[ Reply to This | # ]

Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, September 20 2002 @ 04:33 PM CDT

If only those Greek anarchists came... then we\'d attack the cops.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, September 20 2002 @ 05:05 PM CDT

Don\'t underestimate the Washington Times; Reagan said it was one of his favourite newspapers...

[ Reply to This | # ]

Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, September 20 2002 @ 05:28 PM CDT

ahah :)

Most amusing the editorial, despite the serious matter that it talks about.

Be carefull and good luck to the protests!

I wish you all the best.

Renato, from Portugal

[ Reply to This | # ]

Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, September 20 2002 @ 05:30 PM CDT

in attempting to block traffic and access to expressways during R2K, some protesters locked chains across the street and then did a lockdown to stop traffic. With a few arrests, the streets were effectively put out of comission for the entire morning.

This can be done in areas far from the main protest sites by affinity groups of between 20 and 40.

Best of luck all in DC.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Authored by: Anonymous on Saturday, September 21 2002 @ 11:35 PM CDT

As a resident of the DC metro area I am consistently sickened by the selfish tactics used by so called \"protesters\" at the IMF/World Bank. What purpose does it serve to block traffic and jam up the Metro system? Because you can? What a political statement! Making people miserable is no may to change their minds. You are using the SAME tactics as the PRO-LIFE wackos who come to march on the mall.

ALL of you will arrive at the protests via bus, plane, or car. You are using oil and supporting the evil corporations that you claim are exploiting the planet. Just a little hypocritical doncha think? If you really believed in your cause you would not use ANY of the products that are produced by capitalist companies.

Another thing that gets me about this political movement is the endorsement of using violence and destruction to promote change. The only thing that violence and destruction bring is MORE violence and destruction, usually against innocents. I understand that there are no \"leaders\" in the anarchist movement so therefore there is no endorsement of any policy or tactic. This is just one giant COP-OUT. It allows for folks who are traditionally leaders (the folks with megaphones, printing presses, and websites) to espouse violence against people and property without taking responsibility for endorsing it because \"every individual must make up his/her own mind on how to protest\". Puh-Leese!

The anti-capitalist movement is doomed to failure because protesters choose to wear masks when they protest. Seems to me that it is because they do not have the courage of their convictions to let everyone know what they believe. Either that or they do not want their mommy and daddy to know that they are spending their money to break stuff instead of on books or rent. Instead they hide behind a mask so they can smash a window at McDonalds. There will be no change while cowards hide behind masks and use soccer hooligan tactics to advance their cause.

What kind of world would we live in if Ghandi or Dr. King wore a mask to protest oppression or espoused violence to defeat tyranny? Off hand it would be a world in which African Americans had no civil rights and India would still be under England\'s boot. The real tragedy would be that many more people would have suffered and died for this result than for the one we had today.

My advice is to stay home and help ease your fellow human\'s suffering in your own backyard. If you do that this world might be a better place, and I may be able to get to work on time.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Authored by: Anonymous on Saturday, September 21 2002 @ 11:48 PM CDT

is it just me or is infoshop, indymedia, and
every other leftist, alternative, or anarchist forum full of crap like the above recently??
idiots coming out of the binary woodwork!

inscend

[ Reply to This | # ]

Authored by: Anonymous on Sunday, September 22 2002 @ 01:58 AM CDT

Yea I dono. I\'m gonna try addressing him as a normal person though.

Ok what your talking about are purist phylosophys. For instance if someone was raping your girlfriend (or boyfriend possibly I don\'t know your gender or sexuality) and you decided well I COULD violently stop him... but that would just cause more violence. So you\'ll just let him right? Wrong. It takes action to stop violence. Some times violent action. We have to work as a collective to stop people from exploiting or attacking members of the collective. As currently \"inconvieniancing\" these people, as you put it, is not devistating to them. These people will be able to survive. And the attack is only against the capitalist institutions that are opposeing us in the first place. So the bystandards do get inconvienianced for participating in them, but oh my god is someone going to die from mild inconvieniance? Wow I mean you must sure be fealing real conviction for those sweatshop kids if your this angery about people being mildly inconvienianced. So wow I\'ll have to admire your conviction to that capacity. The reality is that someone might have to be mildly inconvienianced to create a revolution. Hell someone might even have to die, and it might just be me. I still will fight for this. I know the risks and I know the benifits. Weighing them I can\'t for a second believe that a few lives arn\'t worth it. Not to menton that a few people being inconvienianced isn\'t even something I will even bother to think about.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Authored by: Anonymous on Sunday, September 22 2002 @ 05:15 AM CDT

\"What kind of world would we live in if Ghandi or Dr. King wore a mask to protest oppression or espoused violence to defeat tyranny?\"

Yet the violence suffered by these movements was
quite extreme.

\"Off hand it would be a world in which African Americans had no civil rights and India would still be under England\'s boot.\"

These respective movements were not limited to \"non-violence.\" Different sections used different
tactics and all contributed to the end of these forms of oppression.

\"The real tragedy would be that many more people would have suffered and died for this result than for the one we had today.\"

Actually, a great many people *did* suffer and died for these goals. The state had no qualms about using violence against non-violent protesters.

\"My advice is to stay home and help ease your fellow human\'s suffering in your own backyard.\"

In other words, do nothing! What kind of world would we live in if Ghandi or Dr. King just stayed
at home?

\"If you do that this world might be a better place, and I may be able to get to work on time.\"

As if anything ever was achieved by doing nothing!
And Gandi and Dr. King\'s work also involved making people late for work...

And if this person *was* concerned about the state of the world, he would come along and protest. But obviously just getting to work on time is the most important thing.... sad, really.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Authored by: Anonymous on Sunday, September 22 2002 @ 04:17 PM CDT

although i should feel attacked, i kinda agree. if we want to make a world of love and respect, we cannot start with hate and violence. we\'re sending the wrong message. in a while all the neo-nazis will have invaded \"our\" protests, just like the hardcore scenes (both punk & techno) end up being filled with white supremacists.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Authored by: Anonymous on Sunday, September 22 2002 @ 09:12 PM CDT

I have no clue what you all are making such a fuss about. I should be ashamed of my ignorance, ok, I am. You should be ashamed too. You all are more interested in raising hell and causing problems than you are in getting your point across.
I am interested in hearing peoples viewpoints but I will tell you right now. If you start rioting in my neighborhood you will just turn me completely off to your arguments. Is that the best you can do?
\"We need to use violence cause you are raping our girlfriends and do do otherwise would mean to do nothing.....\" Bullshit. Have you registered to vote? Have you not heard that the pen is mightier than the sword? Is it too much to ask that you frame your concerns and arguments into rational statements and express them in a civilized manner?
You seem to think that getting in people\'s faces is the only way to get attention. Actually, you maybe serving someone\'s purposes and venting your adolescent anger but when you scare people you make them angry and when you make them angry like that they will go for your ass. So, do you want a confrontation or do you want to make a difference?

[ Reply to This | # ]

Authored by: Anonymous on Sunday, September 22 2002 @ 10:46 PM CDT

Steve,
you write: \"I am interested in hearing peoples viewpoints but I will tell you right now. If you start rioting in my neighborhood you will just turn me completely off to your arguments\"
and: \"Is it too much to ask that you frame your concerns and arguments into rational statements and express them in a civilized manner?\"
Our arguments and concerns HAVE been made into rational statements and expressed in many
such civilized (though some of us may worry over that term) manners. If you are interested in our viewpoints as you claim there is a whole rich history and tradition just waiting for you. Pick up a book, ask one of us.....
As for \"venting our adolescent anger\", I think you\'d find - as we all must explain again and again - that we are not all adolescents.
And then there\'s the issue of voting you mention...this ties in to the whole reason we must be \"confrontational to make a difference\"....what we are up against will not be changed by voting. Those in power will not just suddenly up and say \"oh you\'re right! we\'ll dismantle capitalism and the state and pledge all our time to ending as much human suffering as possible.\" This is a fight Steve! And we intend to win!
If you want to learn the reasons we take to the streets, that info is easily available, but until then your comments will just remain silly,
off-mark, or non-sensical....

[ Reply to This | # ]

Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, September 23 2002 @ 12:09 AM CDT

\"Have you not heard that the pen is mightier than the sword?\"

Steeve The other guy said the rest so I have only this to say. I\'ll give you a pen and then I\'ll get a sword, and we\'ll have a strugle for human life. Who do you think will win? The reality is that our opposing side wields boath a pen and a sword, but pens don\'t accomplish anything but getting more swords and confusing people. We as anarchists do a lot of fliering and stuff to combat dissinformation. So we too use boath the pen and the sword. Your analogy is not correct and dramaticly over simplifys the issue.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, September 23 2002 @ 01:30 AM CDT

Active non-violence is not doing nothing.

How many times in the history of the world has violece and war actually solved a problem without creating more suffering?

Is it different this time because YOU feel justified? To me that seems INCREDIBLY ego-centric.

All evil institutions will eventually collapse upon themselves because they use evil to perpetuate themselves. This goes for the multi-national corporations some people protest and movements & governments that are based upon violence. I count Exxon (and companies like them)and anti-capitalist protesters in that last statement. Anything based on violence and evil will not last and eventually collapse upon itself.

I work in a non-profit, volunteer in my community, vote in every election (primaries, school board, etc.), and buy from companies that have a social conscience. I am trying to increase my capacity for empathy, compassion, and lovingkindness. My heroes are Ghandi, Dr. King, and the Dhali Llama.

In short I am a left-leaning, socially conscious, and responsible citizen. I am naturally inclined to be sympathetic to the anti-capitalist point of view. The problem is that I cannot make a distinction between smashing a store window hurting a cop (or an innocent) to make a point and the idiots that do the same thing to \'celebrate\' the Lakers (or other sports fans) winning a champoinship.

Violence is violence no matter what your motivation or justification is.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, September 23 2002 @ 04:15 AM CDT

i think you\'re assuming too much about us, i don\'t know of ANY anarchist who would advocate hurting cops and even less innocent people. many anarchists advocate property destruction and, while the effectiveness of this tactic can be argued, this is NOT violence.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, September 23 2002 @ 09:00 AM CDT

Well, many people argue self defense against a cop or military person is just as justified as self defense from an attack by your next door neighbor.

The right that they have to indiscriminately harm and terrorize people is based on the acceptance of the validity of the government, law and order as it is, etc.

Anarchists do not recognize the government as a valid instiution, especially one that has the \"right\" to control people. So why should they take a beating from someone employed by such an institution just because that institution says they have no right to self-defense against the attacks from their employees?

[ Reply to This | # ]

Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, September 23 2002 @ 11:54 AM CDT

Graham,

you write:
\"How many times in the history of the world has violece and war actually solved a problem without creating more suffering?\"

although some may come up with examples to challenge your statement, I would say that most of us (i will not speak for us (anarchists) as a whole, that\'s idiotic) are ANTI-WAR and we would agree with you that war and violence is a tool of dominance and does just ADD to human suffering. However, property destruction is very different, as is violence in self-defense.

\"All evil institutions will eventually collapse upon themselves because they use evil to perpetuate themselves. This goes for the multi-national corporations some people protest and movements & governments that are based upon violence.\" YES, they probably will and usually do because people resist them - the point is however that while we wait for that \"eventually\" to happen, year after year, day by day, the amount of human suffering that could be ended is mind-boggling! And we can put an end to it! We do not have the time to wait till the clockspring of capitalism and the state or each Enron winds itself down...too many lives are at stake!

\"and anti-capitalist protesters in that last statement. Anything based on violence and evil will not last and eventually collapse upon itself.\" for someone who sounds at least like
a liberal or progressive, calling anti-capitalists \"evil\" sounds just like Bush! Get off it...

\"work in a non-profit, volunteer in my community, vote in every election (primaries, school board, etc.), and buy from companies that have a social conscience. I am trying to increase my capacity for empathy, compassion, and lovingkindness. My heroes are Ghandi, Dr. King, and the Dhali Llama.\" GOOD for you, many of may do some of these same things and have similar respect for those people you mention! But we also do more....

as for your last line (which i briefly touched on before....all of this has to be brief given the medium...i suggest Graham that you do some reading up on our beliefs - this site has some good links) \"Violence is violence no matter what your motivation or justification is.\" I think you are working with a media/status-quo concept of \"violence\"....

[ Reply to This | # ]

Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, September 23 2002 @ 04:16 PM CDT

How come cops have been hurt the last two times there have been demonstrations at the IMF? If anarchists do not advoacte violence why are people getting hurt? I expect that the COP-OUT awnser is to blame the cops for this.

I strongly disagree about your definition of violence. To me, destroying property is a violent act. To smash a window do you not strike it like you would a person you were trying to hurt.

Also, please do not patronize me by saying that I have taken the \"media\" take on what is violence and what is not. That is a convenient way to discount someone else\'s opinion without taking the time to consider it. This is a tactic used by the far-right wackos who blame the \"media\" for corrupting our society with all the things that they don\'t like (homosexuality, abortion, \"anti-christian\" values).

I assume that anarchists endorse violence because of the things that are written on this website. Specifically the scavenger hunt that is listed that gives points for violent acts. I know that this may be intended as a joke. I do have a sense of humor. But some folks (like myself) who are curious about what you believe in are likely to think that this is what anti-capitalists really believe. Unless you tell us otherwise we are likely to take you at face value. If some idiot actaully follows this point system, how much hay do you think the mainstream media will make of it? You are not responsible for one idiots actions no matter what you print. But if this one idiot gets tied to an established website that printed the scavenger hunt, how do you think neutral people will react to it? They will condemn the MOVEMENT for the actions of one person. All of the focus on the demonstrations will center on how violent and destructive they were instead of what you all actually had to say. Which is a shame because it seems that below all the anger that there are some decent tenets of this movement. They will not be heard by more than the people that already agree with you until the violence and destruction end.

From my experience in researching the anarchist/anti-capitalist movement I find many examples just like the one I listed above. The methods overshadow the message, which is a shame.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, September 23 2002 @ 04:45 PM CDT

dude,you cant compare violence used in social struggle to wars. Very diffrent things.

If you are opressed you have the right to free yourself-with every means neccessary!

You sound like a hippie,well let me tell yah buddy;the sixties are over!

[ Reply to This | # ]

Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, September 23 2002 @ 04:52 PM CDT

If militant actions turn you off,then it is just shows that you are a well-off middleclass person. Wich means that you are not our primary target. Oh well,you will come around. Ofcourse by then all of us poor and workingclass people will allready be smashing up things like nobodies buisness.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, September 23 2002 @ 06:20 PM CDT

Thanks for judging me without even knowing me!

[ Reply to This | # ]

Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, September 23 2002 @ 06:26 PM CDT

Once again. Nice judgement. Funny, do poor and working class people have internet access and time to post on message boards? Or are you part of the \'enlightened vanguard\' that speaks for the poor and downtrodden? Turn the mirror around pal.

Why don\'t you break stuff to free the oppressed everyday? Do you have to wait until you find a mob and wear a mask before you exersize your convictions? Real brave.

Everyday I can practice my own convictions to make the world a better place. Can you?

[ Reply to This | # ]

Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, September 23 2002 @ 06:47 PM CDT

\"dude,you cant compare violence used in social struggle to wars. Very diffrent things.\"

I\'ll give you one very good historical example of what I mean. The Archduke of Austria was assassinated by a Serbian Anarchist. This led to the start of World War One which subsequently planted the seeds for World War 2, Nazism, and the Holocaust.

Some other forms of violent \"social struggle\".
1. KKK lynchings. They are killing minorities in an attempt to preserve their twisted way of life. One where they still hold all the power.
2. Palestinian Suicide Bombers. These people strap bombs onto their chests in order to enact social change. (establishment of their own state)
3. The 9/11 terrorists. They struck at America for revenge and to hurt America as bad as we have hurt them. I also think that they intended to enact worldwide change by their actions.

Who gets hurt in all of these examples? Scores of innocent people.

How many times has the US Government used violence to enact social change in other countries? Let\'s see there\'s Chile, Iran, Guatemala, Nicaragua, and Argentina in the 60\'s, 70\'s, and 80\'s. Iraq in the 90\'s and Afganistan today. And very possibly Iraq in the near future. Why would you use the same tactics as the entity that you are trying to defeat? If you manage to replace the military industrial complex, what are you going to put in it\'s place? I know that the goal may be to have no government take it\'s place. Rest assured that we are not evolved enough to live without some asshole taking over for his own selfish reasons. Whatever takes it\'s place is going to depend on violence and terror to perpetuate itself because that is the way that it came into being.

I condemn government violence as vigorously as I condemn individual violence. And I am working on a day-to-day basis to eliminate both.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Authored by: Anonymous on Sunday, September 29 2002 @ 08:28 PM CDT

my computer is a a used one,but hell,i dont have to justify anything to you.There will be no social change by handing out flowers!Argentina shows the way!

[ Reply to This | # ]

Authored by: Anonymous on Sunday, September 29 2002 @ 08:30 PM CDT

old used computer that i got cheap.......

[ Reply to This | # ]