Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, July 16 2002 @ 09:14 PM CDT

what a bunch of shit huh?

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Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, July 16 2002 @ 10:07 PM CDT

yea what the hell?

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Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, July 16 2002 @ 10:39 PM CDT

goths like to dress kind of scary right? maybe they should dress like members of the christian right...

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Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, July 16 2002 @ 10:58 PM CDT

Bizarre. I had no idea that \"Goth culture leaders\" were such a threat to the state. Looks like it\'s time for a Goth Bloc in Missouri! Get out your old Smiths CD\'s!

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Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, July 16 2002 @ 11:24 PM CDT

I have no idea how goths are a threat to the state maby the US is trying to put a stop to alternative cultures.

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Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, July 17 2002 @ 12:16 AM CDT

Heh a goth bloc...

Probably the republican is too afraid by the creatures of the night...or he listened to Bauhaus and Nosferatu and the music freezed him. When will it come to black and death metal?

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Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, July 17 2002 @ 12:23 AM CDT

Mock us no longer, we will use our spooky powers to destroy the church, capitalism and the state... then we will cast off our dark demeanors and live in harmony with nothing but 80s synth-pop.

It\'s natural for goths to become anarchists. We don\'t have to change the color of our wardrobe.

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Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, July 17 2002 @ 08:46 AM CDT

Oh my goth! This is awful. It makes me want to die... die... dye my hair black.

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Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, July 17 2002 @ 08:47 AM CDT

this is actually a old story.

noticed the date? January 30, 2002

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Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, July 17 2002 @ 06:06 PM CDT

yea i know its old but i thought it was worth a post cuz i didnt see anyone else bring it up.

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Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, July 17 2002 @ 06:12 PM CDT

His name is GRAVES hahahahaha.

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Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, July 17 2002 @ 06:44 PM CDT

what do they think these \"goth leaders\" are going to do to the youth? teach them about darkwave, poetry, and the importance of a really cool looking pair of boots? ;) the fact that this is even an issue really just validates their own ignorance... i mean, COME ON! it makes me go Grrrrrrrrr. i\'m sure there are more important issues in MO than the \'goth\' threat. let\'s all go grab our best ripped fishnets and show them how silly they\'re being. ;)

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Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, July 17 2002 @ 10:09 PM CDT

you people are funny, dismissing the goth culture like this, i think that if you had some real sense of humour you\'d laugh at your own culture and your own rituals.

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Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, July 17 2002 @ 10:30 PM CDT

I think a lot of people laughing are missing the point that all counter-cultures have at their heart attempts to achieve autonomy and cultural subsistance which threatens capital and the state. I\'m no goth ( i do go goth clubbing though) but i can see its radical content. Its focus of emotional and sensual experiences of life and the large amount of women active in the culture ( much more than punk-my cultural home) means that it often conflicts with the patriarchal (pseudo)rationalism of industrial civilisation and is very liberating for those involved. It is said that anarchos like the politicos of the left only understand revolt when it appears in the language and dress they themselves share
cheers
dave

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Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, July 17 2002 @ 11:21 PM CDT

Might as well use this as an opportunity to promote an obscure email list.

martyrs@secret.org

A list for folks who like gothic/industrial/etc... music
and have some radical politics.

Subscription:

To: majordomo@secret.org
Body: subscribe martyrs

Unsubscription:

To: majordomo@secret.org
Body: unsubscribe martyrs

Unmoderated, Posting Limited to Subscribers, Unarchived

How do you know if you qualify? Some of these may or may not apply: You wear entirely to much black, and would even if there wasn\'t a black bloc. You\'re considering cruelty free fetish gear. You are at ease making jokes about democidal totalitarian regimes, but the more you talk about it, the less funny it is. You wonder if the end of patriarchy will make BDSM sex less interesting. You\'ve found revolutionary potential in many spiritualities, and also the lack of any. You\'d be a nihilist if only they weren\'t so negative! You meet the Complete Cyberpunk Fakebook\'s definition of a wobbly. You listen to rantradio.com at work. You think corporations are the only vampires in the world, being immortal, gifted with supernatural powers, not so secretly controlling the government, and feeding off the blood and dreams of everyone they touch. You don\'t like it when neonazis crash your multi-ethnic sex-positive club scene and beat up your friends because of who they are.

You might like:
SPK, Snog, KMFDM/MDFMK, Birmingham 6, Test Dept, This Mortal Coil, Ministry, Foetus, Bad Religion, Pig Face, Pop Will Eat Itself, Atari Teenage Riot,
The Shizit, Winterkalte, Rasputina, Tchkung!,
din_fiv, Xorcist, New Mind, Construggle
Test, Babyland, Velvet Acid Christ, Devolver,
Pail, Strategy, Stromkern, Digital Blood,
Battery Cage, Deathline International, FleshField,
Assemblage 23, Project X, Cenobita, God Module,
Fundamental, Trans Global Underground,
Railgun, Takshaka, Monstrum Sepsis, Pain Fetish,
Injury, ELF, Negative Format, GASR, Electro
Synthetic Rebellion, Absurd Minds, Zeder, Chiasm,
Netz, Anaesth, Buropolitik, Cymotec, Diverje
and you like it even more if they mix in some
Chomsky.

Suggestions, send them to the list. :)

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Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, July 17 2002 @ 11:34 PM CDT

Yeah, yeah... most of those bands aren\'t \"Gothic\", but industrial (or even digital hardcore, noise or fusion stuff). Deal with it. You know how hard it is to find political goth music?

Dave, Robert... get a grip. Goth subculture isn\'t the revolution. Revolt isn\'t about style, it\'s about action.

And the fifty-two daughters of the revolution
Turn the gold to chrome Dominion/Mother Russia, Sister of Mercy

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Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, July 18 2002 @ 02:16 AM CDT

I just don\'t see the reason they are atacking goth culture. I mean there are a few more revolutionary and anti-consumreist cultures than goth I\'m sure. Perhaps the state is not willing to recognise those cultures yet.

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Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, July 18 2002 @ 06:30 AM CDT

If you look closely at these cultural movements they share ostentatiously some rebellious elements (odd dress, odd music, anti-mainstream religion, anti-capitalism) with a glorification of drugs. Drug use is part of the \"rebellion\"; Joe Sixpack, drinks alcohol for his escapism; whether absinthe, ecstacy, PCP, marijuana, etc what is the real difference? Not that drugs aren\'t useful to some people but they can become traps for escapism & despair for the unhealthy. So, when average Joe, who\'s getting sick of the excesses of his society, sees these people (who might not be representative of the culture or not, of course) he is immediately struck by their sickness which confirms the propaganda of the establishment. Escapism in drug use also cripples any movement away from consumerism--drugs are simply another consumer product.
-----
When the subculture gets a wide enough following marketeers notice this and increase output of those items, which are promptly bought up by suburbanite youth. So, while trying to despartly separate themselves from a hedonistic and materialistic culture they become lucrative products within it. See the sustained mania for the cultural products of the \'60s and \'70s today.
-----
I\'ll admit to being out of touch but isn\'t the Goth subculture on the way down?

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Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, July 18 2002 @ 09:24 AM CDT

Never heard of \"homebrew\" or \"homegrown\"? That\'s what we do over here. That is totally anti- and unconsumeristic.

Escapism is of course totally another issue. But to many young people the subcultures THEMSELVES are escapism and when one is wise enough you don\'t need drugs or escapes. Some people move out of the subcultures after this but some stay and then it\'s a real and stronger subculture. aw words don\'t come out.

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Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, July 18 2002 @ 09:27 AM CDT

the same applies for almost all sub-cultures but it doesn\'t mean there is nothing good in them... it still is a way for people to break away from the mainstream culture and eventually join the rebellion.

but yeah, the goth culture isn\'t a revolutionary movement or whatever, they don\'t have a \"tactic\", a plan, it\'s just a culture damnit... of course such thing doesn\'t fit in the little mind of an average marxist, who can\'t bear anything that is not political and that does not deal with class war.

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Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, July 18 2002 @ 10:42 AM CDT

One thing I\'ve noticed about goth culture that it seems to be the only musical subculture that does not inspire it\'s adherents to start their own bands. Really, if your in the punk scene or the hiphop scene or the ska scene or whatever, everyone\'s starting up their own bands to try to become just like their musical heroes. There are only a tiny number of goth bands, and I don\'t know anyone who\'s ever been in one.

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Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, July 18 2002 @ 11:04 AM CDT

It\'s not \"trying to become just like their musical heroes.\" It\'s more like \"becoming your own musical hero,\" doing the shit yourself generally & enjoying culture.

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Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, July 18 2002 @ 11:41 AM CDT

Most leftists, marxists or otherwise, have some kind of culture they like. It might be pop culture, it might be punk, it might be hippie, it might be skinhead or goth. And then there is all the \"activist\" culture stuff.

Noone is saying cultures and subcultures need to be destroyed cause they don\'t match some idea of Marxist perfection. Just, don\'t inflate them into some kind of huge importance.

Culture wise, we need to be creating a \"culture of resistance\" that spans across hair-styles and music genres.

Most subculture \"rebellion\" is just about style. It doesn\'t do anything to challenge existing social relationships, except maybe the relationship between some youth, their parents and their school. But that\'s about dominant society\'s desire for conformity; not the relative merits of any particular subculture. And, by and large, the state and capitalism function quite well no matter clothing, music, tatoos, or friends that you have.

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Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, July 18 2002 @ 11:43 AM CDT

That\'s because it has more than three chords. Goths want their music to be good, not like that that punk crap. :)

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Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, July 18 2002 @ 01:30 PM CDT

Now, now, now. It\'s not the number of chords it\'s the fact that they\'re all power chords and are relitively easy to play and move between quickly. Anyone who actualy plays punk will know what I mean.

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Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, July 18 2002 @ 07:01 PM CDT

hahaha

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Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, July 19 2002 @ 05:24 PM CDT

Well, i was the one who found this article to begin with, got a friend to post it up but there you go..

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Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, August 27 2002 @ 12:53 PM CDT

uhh bad religion isnt \"gothic\" or \"industrial\"....

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Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, October 17 2002 @ 08:38 PM CDT

im from st. joseph missouri...IT FOOKIN SUCKS!!! rednecks, oppression, preppies, wiggers, whatever...now im getting depressed...dammit!
goths...hmm, i dont quite understand what theyre tryin to get across...is it a revolution of dark clothing, or maybe stupid music...i dunno

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Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, October 22 2002 @ 09:08 PM CDT

dont judge others...wiggers what the hell is that.......they are just other cultures man...fight oppression dont hate

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