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Tuesday, February 09 2010 @ 06:55 PM UTC

Are We Addicted to Rioting?

Anarchist Movement
The G20 is upon us, and though BBC world news featured some of "the troubles" in Pittsburgh, on the ground reports hardly match up with the media-inflation, police-inflation, and activist-inflation of the actual thing. As one who was not present in Pittsburgh, I cannot give a first-hand account. Phone calls with friends on the ground and various independent and corporate-media accounts are my window to the events. But as one who has participated in countless similar events, who didn't attend the G20 due to feelings of disconnection/confusion with my own people, I felt strongly enough to write this.


By: Ryan Harvey - September 24, 2009

The G20 is upon us, and though BBC world news featured some of "the troubles" in Pittsburgh, on the ground reports hardly match up with the media-inflation, police-inflation, and activist-inflation of the actual thing. As one who was not present in Pittsburgh, I cannot give a first-hand account. Phone calls with friends on the ground and various independent and corporate-media accounts are my window to the events. But as one who has participated in countless similar events, who didn't attend the G20 due to feelings of disconnection/confusion with my own people, I felt strongly enough to write this.

As is often the case, big media makes things look a whole lot crazier than they actually are, if it's in the interests of higher ratings. And though most Americans if surveyed would be against rioting, they love to watch it on TV. So the media is hyping the G20 protests up enough to get some extra points, but not enough to anger their parent companies.

The police of course have to inflate the threats posed by relatively small numbers of protestors to justify the gigantic amount of city, state and federal tax-payer money used to buy new weapons, vehicles, chemical munitions, and armor. They get to keep all these goodies to use against whomever crosses their path in the future. So little pebbles getting tossed at robo-cops become boulders and little marches becoming security threats.

To match these two forces, the protest groups, especially my own comrades in the anarchist groups, inflate their stories, numbers, and actions to try to gain support and build momentum, and to make them feel better. So a dumpster getting rolled down a street into an intersection will be heroized in well-designed pamphlets to come and talked about for years the way my generation still talks about the fence-chasing incident at A16, (World Bank/IMF protests on April 16, 2000 in DC).

What is so crazy about all of this, this inflation is that it doesn't seem to help. As an organizer with a decade of experience in all types of work, from anarchist organizations to peace groups to labor organizing, I don't think over-hyping our actions does anything for us. In fact, I think it works to our disadvantage. It adds to a culture of dishonesty, of not addressing our shortcomings, of not reflecting and refining our work.

Now Pittsburgh had a crowd of 4,000-10,000 people according to different reports. While this is a big number in general, it's not so big compared to public opinions on such issues at the bailout, corporate executive bonuses, or the global economic order in general. Most folks in the U.S. are pretty angry, from the far left to the independent right/libertarians. Instead of congratulating ourselves on a "large turnout", we should be asking why it wasn't nearly size of most anti-war demonstrations that have happened. Not to put ourselves down in anyway, but to consider the factors so that we can go about building a stronger movement for economic justice. When we don't look into these factors, we are walking blind.

Another major issue in these protests is that when militant groups over-hype themselves before-hand, to make themselves seem bigger, more powerful, and often more willing to use violence or property destruction, they invite and allow public justification for large, well-funded and well-equipped police action... And they are not prepared to take it. They are usually fronting, thinking that talking big will make the actual thing big. This is not how organizing works. You actually have to do the work, not just front like you have. You end up in dangerous situations when you do this.

A flimsy PVC-reinforced banner is not going to last long against a few riot-police, it never has. I've seen it many times and it's never done anything more than look cool in a photo to those who've never seen the damn things break on impact. I once saw a cop beat an anarchist with a piece of his own broken PVC "shield" banner.

I came from this scene, learned all the tactical terms, and met many good people who I ran in the streets with, and we got into some crazy situations. I have been around the bloc a few times. I have inhaled tear gas and pepper spray, heard the close-up clicks on the infamous taser, and heard the sobering sounds of riot batons breaking human bones. I once saw a guy almost burn a hole in his hand throwing a tear gas canister back at the police in Quebec City in 2001. At the beginning of the Iraq war, I helped drag a 16 year-old girl away from a group of police who were beating her in DC. Both her ankles and one of her arms were broken. In Miami in 2003, I heard the explosion of "less-lethal" weapons and heard a loud pop next to me. As I turned, a middle-aged woman was starting to run away with blood literally pouring out of her mouth. She had been hit in the face with a rubber bullet.

After that incident I began a long reflective process, one that started in the bloodstained streets of Miami and hasn't stopped yet, hopefully it never will. Something clicked when the blood poured out of this woman's mouth; this is for real. I am really here and we are really getting the shit kicked out of us. What before seemed sort of fun, sort of therapeutic, sort of educational, now seemed totally dangerous, serious, and life-threatening.

It also became clear that our actions in the streets were not usually connected to any real strategy to achieve change, no goals that we could attain, no real meaning for being there at that time, besides to ruin the party for the bigwigs. Not that that's a bad thing to do, it's just not worth my eye, hand, or life. It went on like this for years for me before I sobered up, took a step back, and realized I was in the middle of a big mess, a mess with very few details. It was like a messy room that only has large furniture in it, no scraps of paper, no old dishes, no crumbs. Everything upon observation was really clear, it was obvious what was wrong.

I began to think about my purpose for protest, my desire for economic and social justice, peace, and equality. As I reflected, I became disillusioned with protest, burned out, depressed, and lost. It took a while to crawl out of it, but I came out on top. I learned a lot during my down time and came to some understandings.

One of the clearest understandings I reached, one that was really solidified recently after reading a book called War Is A Force That Gives Us Meaning by Chris Hedges, is that me and many friends were pretty much addicted to these intense street situations. We were engaging in "combat scenarios" and really, to a scary degree, creating mini-war scenes where we could play out some strange fantasies.

War is A Force That Gives Us Meaning talks about the strange attraction that people have to war, even those highly opposed to it. Even those scarred by it, terrified by it, and deeply effected by it. Some go into war and get real messed up, vowing to never return, only to soon find themselves desiring that adrenaline, the fear, the intensity. Hedges was a journalist in Bosnia, El Salvador, Lebanon, and Iraq. He realized after many years that he was experiencing a type of addiction, seeking a high that can only be attained in a combat situation.

I fear that we too, anarchists and street militants, have similar symptoms. We intentionally go into situations that we know are dangerous, that we often know don't really have any solid plan. Maybe it's part machismo, maybe it's part desperation, maybe it's part legit too, but I think it's a lot of high-seeking. We desire the intensity, the rush. We get to enact roles that we don't get to enact in our everyday lives, heroism, bravery, sacrifice, quick thinking, fear-testing, and some forms of solidarity. We also get to experience prison, pain, and life-changing trauma.

All of this is well worth it if we have our eyes on the prize and are fully aware of the risks, reasons, and responsibilities of these types of actions. The risks are obvious, the reasons usually are few and far between (meaning we usually don't have a very sound strategic approach to protest that results in the real changes we desire). The responsibilities are usually totally missing, aside from street medics and basic legal support. But larger ones, like trauma support for years afterwards, support for those abused in prison, networks of real care and compassion like those veterans have created with groups like Vets 4 Vets and Homefront Battle Buddies to heal from the painful experiences of violence, don't exist yet.

I have seen all of this go pretty much unnoticed by those of us who organized actions that resulted in the trauma, like those of us who helped organize in Miami. A lot of us who were there learned that lesson real quick afterwards, but a bit too late. I know a woman who has full audio/visual flashbacks from Miami, another parallel with war, and a common symptom of PTSD. Many of my friends have PTSD from their experiences in Iraq and Afghanistan. It would not be surprising if many of us have been coping with similar effects from Philadelphia, Miami, DC, and St. Paul and didn't know it because we are not in a movement that is prepared to handle or reflective enough to admit such things.

While the experiences of violence can easily change you, I don't want to dwell on this too much. I don't want my point to get blurred. I'm not scared of violence all the time. I'm not against violence all the time. I'm not against riots all the time, and I'm not against folks putting themselves in harms way just to prove a point all the time. But I am no longer lending my support to these acts if they are not solidly rooted in an organizational and movement-wide foundation, supported by large numbers of people who understand their purpose and the steps to take afterwards. If we are "stepping it up" or "escalating" without the massive numbers of people that we were previously standing with, we are losing people, and are thus destined to fail. I don't want to be in a people-less movement, I want to build strong movements that can take bold and seemingly dangerous steps together, growing as they move forward. This can justify the risk.

On the question of "Violence VS Non-Violence" I opt out. I respond with a better question: "What is your goal?". Then I consider the goals, how they link up to a larger strategy, and how it effects its movement as a whole. "Will it make you stronger?". "Will it hurt your organizing efforts?". These are the relevant questions. Then I ask, "What do you need to do to achieve your goal?". Then I consider the question of violence or non-violence. It's more of a tactical concern, and tactical concerns stem from a goal, which usually stems from an even bigger goal, which stems from a strategy.

If you roll a dumpster at the police, why are you doing it? To prove a point? To block a street? To open a street? To cause a diversion to pull off another action? To impress the media? To impress your friends? To get it out of the way? To get it in the way? These are relevant questions, far more relevant than whether or not it's morally acceptable to roll a dumpster around. But then you must ask yourself why you are trying to achieve that tactical goal. Are you blockading a meeting? Are you causing chaos to make the summit look bad? Are you trying to get media attention? Do you want revenge on the police? Then you must ask yourself why you are blockading the meeting or causing chaos or trying to get on TV. Who are you trying to effect? Who's your base? If you want media attention, who are you trying to reach out to? What is your message for them? If you are trying to cause chaos, what is the purpose? Who is it serving? How is it advancing your goals? What effect will it have on your movement next week, next month, next year? What is the follow-up to all of this?

That's how winning movements think. Those are the critical questions to ask, among others. Unfortunately, I never experienced a single anarchist group that considered any of this. We just went out and did the craziest stuff, had a few parties/events in the next few months, and started the next round of last-minute militant protest organizing, building for our next street-fantasy, the omnipresent and mythological "next Seattle". We were chasing a high that we didn't even understand.

In pursuit of this high, we got lost in our own imagery and rhetoric. We convinced ourselves that we, the anarchists, were the movement. We were the ones who were important, the ones who made the difference between a dinky permitted march and a history-making mobilization. We used Seattle as the ultra-reference, where a group of a few dozen black bloc anarchists caused over 4 million dollars in property damage. Nevermind the other 49,000 + people in Seattle's actions, sacrifices, and hard work. Nevermind the union workers rushing into downtown to defend those doing civil disobedience. Nevermind those who locked down peacefully or used human chains to blockade delegate hotels. We were too obsessed with ourselves to let other folks steal out glory. We called them all "liberals", and this was the ultimate diss.

A recent Crimethinc report on the Pittsburgh G20 says that the black bloc-portion of the protests "signifies the survival of militant street resistance in the Obama era.". But I ask to what end? Militant street resistance against what? For what? What kind of vague movement are we part of if we discuss our tactics as if they are the very point of using them? Is "militant street protest" an end in itself? Why? What about the "survival of a sustained movement for economic justice"? Why don't we discuss the things we are working for? Are we working for "militant street protests" or are we working towards a broad social goal? Do anarchists no longer think in terms of issues, goals, or things they care about? Just vague notions of "freedom" (like the freedom to light a dumpster on fire) or "resistance" (a habit of attending and organizing semi-annual pre-staged battles with the police)?

This insurrectionary rhetoric that is so popular today among us young anarchists is belittling and destroying anarchism. It's turning it into a mythic fantasy world, where things magically change because someone breaks a window or quits their job. And it's pulling a lot of young people into situations where they are often hurting long-term movements for change, rather than reinforcing them. Today's "Anarchism" is too disconnected from larger movements, too fragmented in it's own, and too carried away with it's own romanticism.

These are serious critiques and questions from a comrade, someone who throws their heart into positive work every day for serious, radical social change. I write not to piss my friends off or put people down, but to challenge -urge- my friends to think very critically, very... Critically enough to make a meeting suck. Enough to make you really frustrated. Enough to spark heated but respectful discussion. Enough to make the work hard and controversial. It's not supposed to be this fun. The fun comes from the struggle. The fun is in light of the struggle. We don't struggle enough. We play around issues, organizing these events where we experience "street liberation", the high, and then spend the next few months coming down from it until we re-up. Crimethinc mentions the great high later in the same article, without admitting the contradictions of this strange addiction: "No words can do justice to this experience, but it is real".

Is that why you take the streets, fellow anarchists? Are you searching for that feeling that cannot be explained? That adrenaline rush, that fear? Ask yourself this, and ask it in a serious way. Because if you, are you should reconsider your role in social movements, how you participate, how your actions reverberate, what effects they have on others. And perhaps you should take a deep breath and consider your priorities and those of the people around you. There's too much at stake to waste our time and energy preparing for and executing these theater-like confrontations.

The anarchist groups are full of good people, committed, and hopefully those who will help contribute to positive social changes in our lifetimes. It is for you, the committed anarchists, that I write this. I want you to take my words seriously, because we have a lot of work to do, and most of it is not going to get done in the streets. It's going to get done on the doorsteps, the libraries, the churches, the labor halls, the schools, the military bases, the parks, the prisons, the abortion clinics, the neighborhood associations, the PTAs. And whatever it is, it's not going to be called Anarchism and it's not going to look like what you think it's going to look like. It's going to be new, fresh, original, organic, unique, and real. And it's going to be a combination of all of our society's best politics, ideas, experiences, and sincerity. And we are going to help make it happen.

Let's take anarchism out of the streets for a while and put it back in the communities where it was born.

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Are We Addicted to Rioting?
Authored by: kansasmutualaid on Sunday, September 27 2009 @ 05:09 PM UTC
Ryan,

I've known you for a while and consider you a friend. I also was in the streets of Pittsburgh. While I feel what you are saying, I think your critique is off base.

Most, if not all, if the anarchists I knew and even met on the streets of Pittsburgh are involved in long term community based organizing with strategies and tactics that are unique for their situations. Just because we spent a couple days streetfighting with the pigs and battling it in the streets doesn't mean that our other work was abandoned. Summits happen once or twice a year. The other 360 days of the year are spent on these long term projects.

Also, I don't agree with your assessment that anything on our end was overhyped. I've been going to Summit meeting and protests for a decade now, and I think our roots in the movement may have started at the same time. I've seen the same things you have, had similar thoughts to the ones you are portraying. However, Pittsburgh shattered those thoughts for me. The protests were empowering and amazing to be a part of. Talking to local residents, union members, students, and homeless folks, and hearing their supportive comments made me feel really strong in what we were doing.

Also, think about the comments you made about that march in the context of the "New America" we're living in. 4,000-10,000 people marched against systemic policies, and not just against a figurehead like Bush. This felt like a turning point in a lot of ways to me. Thousands were marching for many reasons, and most were not anarchists... but most I talked with had the amazing critiques of capital and the state. It was definitely a change from other summit protests I've been to.

I feel better about the movement after Pittsburgh than I have in a long long time. I also feel like our movement feels more relevant to many folks, especially the ones I talked to in Pittsburgh. Sure, you'll talk to comrades that had different experiences, but those are the ones I had.

I'm stronger and more ready for the important day to day work in my community. I know the crew that went from our area felt amazing about the mobilization, and more hopeful than we've felt in years.

You raise a lot of good points, and ones I can't find an immediate answer to at this moment... but I feel that this critique may have been a little shirt sighted, especially if you weren't witness or participant to what happened in the streets.

These mobilizations are important, and for many of us, they fit quite well into a longer term strategy of movement building and strengthening, even if the backbone of that work will always be found back at home in our own communities.
Are We Addicted to Rioting?
Authored by: tonedeaf on Monday, September 28 2009 @ 04:32 PM UTC
"The other 360 days of the year are spent on these long term projects."

I think statements like this minimize how much work is actually spent on summit protests. People spent 3 months working on things related to the G-20 summit. Conversations about whether the cost is worth it -- which is an open question and I thank Ryan for challenging orthodoxy by publicly asking it -- are worthwhile, and they need to take into account the amount of time that goes into the organizing. And they also need to take into account the products of the organizing that aren't the protest -- the effect (positive or negative) on relationships between people in pittsburgh, organizations, so on and so forth.

I spent quite a bunch of time working on G-20 related things, and I thank Ryan for asking the question, because we should indeed be having these discussions. My suspicion for some time has been that they are not worth the cost, however, I involved myself because I do believe that if people are going to do something, they might as well make the most of it. Ignoring these kinds of things is just as dangerous, and irrelevant, as blindly engaging them.

And I invite Ryan to come visit Pittsburgh sometime, if only to catch up with old friends.
Are We Addicted to Rioting?
Authored by: RanDomino on Sunday, September 27 2009 @ 09:06 PM UTC
The moment that the forces of Moloch are physically trying to destroy you is the only moment when real struggle can be physically touched. That's what that high is: Reality. Maybe it's a pointless addiction.
But also I think actions like this are shows of force, manifestations of all this organization we talk about- and y'all put on a good show out there. Seeing it emboldens people across the continent to keep up the fight. Big demos and blocs and such aren't supposed to impress anyone else; they're for us. So from what I saw, it was a success. You looked well-practiced and professional, and that's the sort of thing I like to see, that there are people who are serious and dedicated, regardless of whether or not this specific action brings us closer to freedom from capitalism and the State.
A brief response to Ryan Harvey’s article, “Are We Addicted to Rioting?”
Authored by: biofilo on Monday, September 28 2009 @ 12:54 AM UTC

As a person who was in Pittsburgh, while Ryan was not, it’s somewhat frustrating to read in the first paragraph of his article that “on the ground reports” don’t match up with the “…activist inflation of the actual thing.” As an activist who was on the ground, does that mean that my perspective is illegitimate (“inflation”) if it conflicts with the reports Ryan heard, while Ryan’s perspective is legitimate?

On the strength of my firsthand experience, I believe that, contrary to Ryan’s impression from a distance, the Pittsburgh G20 Resistance Project and others did “do the work” of organizing more broadly participatory direct-action-oriented protest than has been seen in recent years. I agree with Ryan that we could do much better and we need to do much better. But it is downright stupid to criticize the work of those who really are making that effort, especially when Ryan was not there, apparently putting his efforts elsewhere. One basic rule of thumb about these things is that those who were not present should listen to those who were, rather than rushing to shout them down in order to get across their own opinions. It is much smarter to urge those who are not doing as much to join in the effort than to criticize people who are giving their lives to this work just because they don’t agree with Ryan on everything.

I’m right there with Ryan when it comes to criticizing young anarchists who think that talking big is enough. He’s right, inflation doesn’t actually do anything for us. If Ryan is reading recent CrimethInc. texts, such as the critique of insurrectionism in the new issue of Rolling Thunder, he knows already that CrimethInc. puts plenty of effort into self-critical evaluation of movement strategy and effectiveness. Not all the conclusions may match his; but he owes it to everyone to acknowledge and address those conclusions at their strongest points, rather than alleging that they do not exist.

Ryan has picked a sitting duck of a target, anyway, in a manner that is hardly fair. He directs his criticism at a text that was composed immediately after a full week of organizing and demonstrating, presumably by people who were extremely exhausted and had not had a moment to rest or reflect. The text was written and published hours after the events of September 24, in an effort to counteract corporate misrepresentations and exaggerations of events—but Ryan essentially lumps it in with them. As far as Ryan is concerned, the hard work that the participants did strategizing about what was effective, organizing for the demonstrations, and describing the results immediately thereafter was all misguided. On the strength of his own former lack of strategy and self-reflection, he feels entitled to paint all of us with that broad brush.

This is the crux of the matter: if Ryan wishes to critique CrimethInc. texts in reference to questions of strategy, he had better choose the texts that are composed as reflections on strategy, not as breaking news reports breathlessly composed by those whose clothes still smell of tear gas. He can certainly find the former—so why has he chosen to focus on the latter?

Ryan says he is not opposed to militant organizing efforts, but that they are ineffective “if they are not solidly rooted in an organizational and movement-wide foundation, supported by large numbers of people who understand their purpose and the steps to take afterwards.” We can agree about that as well—but we might disagree as to what qualifies! And one might argue that keeping the possibility of militant action in the toolbox at all involves some people maintaining a practice of it, even when it is not as popular or pressing, so the skills don’t go entirely out of circulation. It is certainly not the most important aspect of struggle. But most of us who are really invested in it spend the rest of our lives doing hard-core organizing in our local communities. That’s why we’re prepared to risk our bodies and our freedom to struggle against our oppressors in the streets—because we’ve personally seen that anarchist solutions to the problems of daily life work.

I’ll venture to say that I’ve probably witnessed at least as much tragedy and suffering as Ryan has, in my well-over-a-decade of militant anarchist organizing. I’m in my later 30s now. I’m not doing this for the youthful adrenaline rush, but because I believe that street-based struggle is important in certain circumstances. There are young, angry insurrectionists guided by an ego-driven desire for exciting situations, it’s true—but it’s unfair to caricature anyone who disagrees with Ryan’s ideas of what is strategic right now as one such character.

So the final question is—is it ever OK for people to feel that they have succeeded, to enjoy what they are doing, and to express that joy in writing? Can we gush about something that went better than we expected without critics immediately baiting and misrepresenting us? Can we speak aloud to the world about our pleasure in struggle, even bitter, scary struggle, without it being brushed off by supposed comrades as “inflation”?

Because if we can’t, I bet we will have a hard time building a broad-based, joyous movement.

Desiring to be accountable and open to criticism, but firmly expecting the same in return,
b.
A brief response to Ryan Harvey’s article, “Are We Addicted to Rioting?”
Authored by: basil on Tuesday, September 29 2009 @ 02:37 AM UTC
" I’m not doing this for the youthful adrenaline rush, but because I believe that street-based struggle is important in certain circumstances. There are young, angry insurrectionists guided by an ego-driven desire for exciting situations, it’s true—but it’s unfair to caricature anyone who disagrees with Ryan’s ideas of what is strategic right now as one such character."

Biofilo, I'm hurt.

Can the young really not need it like you do?
Are We Addicted to Rioting?
Authored by: communitycntrl on Monday, September 28 2009 @ 01:15 AM UTC
first, PTSD stuff: http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/post...er/DS00246
and http://www.amazon.com/Aftershock-Conf...amp;sr=8-1

i think we are from the same time period and neither of us were there, so we probably have similar notions of reality right now.... i remember the fence chasing incident up close. i'm going to follow along your post and address things in that order....

i'd agree that inflating numbers is something that anarchists shouldn't do. but it doesn't ONLY do bad for us. it makes it feel like there is an actual, sizable movement out there that is worth being a part of. anarchists are so marginalized, we need to hold onto what we have.

the anti-war demos were bigger than PGH was because it is way easier to be against war than to be against capitalism-as-manifested-through-the-policy-decisions-of-the-G20. we both know that the anti-war demos were a mile wide and an inch deep. the people against the g20 are generally going to be much more multi-issue, root caused centered people. people we'd rather have than some anti-war democrat.
other factors: obama elected recently, liberals are not as outraged as they were under Bush, the economic crisis has not been thoroughly discussed in the media yet (i think it will when banking reforms start to be proposed as legislation), etc....
remember, it took 8 years of smaller local grassroots campaigns under a democratic president last time before it coalesced into the WTO in seattle. it takes time for anger to build up, but at least under a democrat that anger can't be channeled into voting for the "better of the 2 parties."

i agree people shouldn't hype their militancy beforehand....

i think you need to give others a chance to have some of the experiences that you talk about. those "crazy" situations.

"What before seemed sort of fun, sort of therapeutic, sort of educational, now seemed totally dangerous, serious, and life-threatening." spoken like someone who has done it enough times. i agree with you on it, but i don't think i should discourage others from doing it just because i don't think its worth it anymore. (sometimes i still do think its worth it in certain situations...)

i think we do have tactics, strategy and goals that go beyond "ruining the party of the bigwigs" even though it can be easy to lose track of that sometimes.

i agree with the assessment you make based on the War Is A Force... book. there is certainly an element of high-seeking. but we are all fundamentally there in the first place because of serious critiques of this system.

i agree that battling it out with the cops in the streets has serious psychological effects on some people, perhaps even all of us. i agree that this risk is not talked about and glossed over to get more people on the streets.

you talk about people needs to know the "steps to take afterwards" but it doesn't seem like you laid them out for people.

"What is your goal?"
for me the overall goals of mass protests are multiple:
1) show wide numbers of people who may be interested in anarchism or fed up that resistance is out there and you can find this movement and be a part of it
2) impact the decisions of the decision makers inside. this is very hard to calculate and measure directly, but if you think for a second about what the impact on Obama's banking regulations would be if 50,000 showed up to protest that and got rowdy in an expression of anger, i think you'd have to say it would push those policies towards more people-favored policies as opposed to banking favored ones. the most tangible example would be the WTO where many delegates from the 3rd world walked out of meetings after seeing the protests on the streets as giving them the backup to do it. and IMF/world bank and WTO messaging, and even policy, no doubt has been influenced by us. its hard to know though because its impossible to know what horrendous ideas got scrapped and never implemented because we were there reminding them that people are outraged.
3) give people who've never had the feeling of being powerful in the face of the police, of being powerful when acting as a group, of being powerful when gathering and making decisions by consensus in large groups, etc... that sense of what COULD be gives people a lot of inspiration to continue working for a better world for years.

"Will it make you stronger?"
i think these events do.

"Will it hurt your organizing efforts?"
this depends on who you are a lot. if you live in the city in question, perhaps. if you are bringing lots of people from your city and giving them a sense of collective resistance, it will probably help your efforts.

i think it is really helpful to ask people to start questioning everything they do from a goal, strategy, and tactic perspective to form a coherent plan for creating a viable movement that creates real change.
and maybe it was the people you were around or the city you are from, but i have had lots of questioning conversations with folks like this.

and i think all the people (you mention the unionists and CDers in seattle) who some may have denigrated or thought themselves better than, could be just as radical as i am and not be doing the property destruction or CD or even be on the streets. some people really meant it when they said they respected a "diversity of tactics." anyone who has met an older anarchist should realize that not every anarchist can get out there and fight with the cops. i think lots of people have known this for a long time.

i think it is unfair to criticize the CrimethInc report as you did. i think they wrote it FOR anarchists who didn't need the WHY explained to them. but it is a valid point that even when we write for each other (which happens WAY more often than it should compared with what we write for a larger audience) we should remember to clearly define our 'why' still.

"Today's "Anarchism" is too disconnected from larger movements, too fragmented in it's own, and too carried away with it's own romanticism."
you can find anarchists writing this at every period in history since anarchism came about.

i totally agree with the need to serious critical thinking and dialogue and discussion and serious reflection and questioning of the things our movement does. it makes us stronger. your questions raised here are excellent because i know that some young anarchists wouldn't come up with them on their own without the experiences you've had.

"And whatever it is, it's not going to be called Anarchism and it's not going to look like what you think it's going to look like. It's going to be new, fresh, original, organic, unique, and real. And it's going to be a combination of all of our society's best politics, ideas, experiences, and sincerity. And we are going to help make it happen."
amen to that. lets worry about getting the society we want and not what we call it or whether we can stay "pure" in getting there.

i think that anarchism needs to be in the streets AND in the communities. this is not an either/or situation.

thanks for writing this.
Are We Addicted to Rioting?
Authored by: sweet tea on Monday, September 28 2009 @ 01:42 PM UTC
Also, on the subject of PTSD, were ryan there he would have found that organizers in pgh put a LOT of focus and attention on ptsd. The wellness center, set up with the purpose of dealing with trauma in mind, did a FANTASTIC job in that role, along tons of street medics, and they deserve to be recognized for it.
Are We Addicted to Rioting?
Authored by: crudo on Monday, September 28 2009 @ 01:32 AM UTC
"Let's take anarchism out of the streets for a while and put it back in the communities where it was born."-

That makes no sense. As if street action is some how removed from organizing in the communities where we live. Look at Northern Ireland are places where the working class as historically been conflictual with the state; rioting is seen as part of the way that the population organically fights and response to the state.

Think of what this statement would mean for Greek anarchists.

I think something better to state, would be how do we get more people into the street with us, in more dangerous ways, and how would we go about doing that.

---
where the proles where the proles where the proles at?
not again...
Authored by: Gerald on Monday, September 28 2009 @ 01:43 AM UTC

can we stop this local vs. national action bullshit?
national action feeds local action and vice versa.
Are We Addicted to Rioting?
Authored by: nostalgia on Monday, September 28 2009 @ 01:57 AM UTC
"Let's take anarchism out of the streets for a while and put it back in the communities where it was born."

Ryan, you were the first anarchist I ever met, but this conflict vs community division is absurd. Most of the rioting on Thursday went down in my neighborhood, kids running up my street past my apartment, teargas billowing into an old friend's apartment, and neighbors standing in the street in the face of the largest police presence I've ever seen. It was amazing to see how collective conflict transformed the entire dynamic of the neighborhood, both aesthetically and socially. Neighbors who don't really give a fuck about politics were outside simply because they were disgusted by the indiscriminate and idiotic violence of the police.

I was pleasantly surprised with how real shit got.
Are We Addicted to Rioting?
Authored by: terracide on Monday, September 28 2009 @ 03:27 AM UTC
We need to find an in between.

It's easy to think in "community organizing vs street fighting" or the other or claim to be for a "strategy."

Folks, y'all shouldn't come to consensus on your desires.

There is no one clear path towards the creation of anarchy.

Summit hopping is great and all but I think we need to take the focus of social war out of summit protests a bit and
in turn focus on meeting needs of our community and figuring out how their interest will inherently be against capitalism and the state, then attempt to drive a wedge in between the two.

There is no way in hell we'll build the better world with out lashing out
but there is no way we are going to build a better world with out taking
shit over either either.

We gotta defend what we make, and build community support for what we make.

Ryan, you're right anarchist need to be a lot smarter about this
stuff and become more relevant to their community.

If folks adopt the stance of "serious community organizer" what will separate us from being liberals?

Seriously, the language of leftists (social justice, movement, what ever)
do not interest everyone. Most people do not identify with it in the slightest,
heck I barely do.

Social justice activists are small portion of the population, if anarchist take
over this roll, we still be a small portion of the population.

Will we be any more relevant then are we are now?

Community activists are barely relevant in their communities. I know in Frederick
we are in many ways damn relevant to community efforts, and some of us also show
up in blacks from time to time.

But I'd be damned if people knew about us more than they know about what we oppose.
The whole town knows about what fort detrick is, most people do not know what fredPAC is.
(A small group of community minded anarchist gone insurrectionist hooligans?)

(Which BTW we are steps away from actually stopping the expansion at fort detrick - WHAT WHAT?)

But we understand the limit, social justice and community activism, it is still a roll in society.

Like any other roll it can be contained.

My personal feelings towards a lot of the activism of the past five years
(large focus on community issues, dual power institution and aiding
soldiers who drop out of the military)

While I really really respect those who partake in such organizing and
continue to they deserve critique as well. Will folks be willing to throw
down if they have loads of community efforts? My fear is will people be
afraid of losing their reputation in their city which will limit their
interest in revolt?

A city with a bike co-op, infoshop, free store, sweet FNB are not any more closer to revolt than
any other city. They just have more credibility to their own community but the question still lies
when will that credibility lead to the increased participation in an anti-capitalist movement or
a more aggressive action towards the state and capital.

What happens when community organizing is the norm? What happens
when revolution is still the norm? Will that make us any closer to anarchy?

The solution, Eh I am tired. I think readers y'all should decide that on your own.

Personally, I am done with the whole community vs street fighting debate.

I love to par take in both, and hopefully in the end abandon community organizing towards creating
strategic social war. Occupy space, take shit over, and then make sure the community wants to defend it.

That takes talking to neighbors and being read for shit to go down.


Are We Addicted to Rioting?
Authored by: alta fuoco on Monday, September 28 2009 @ 10:45 AM UTC
Ryan and sympathizers.

I understand that from the position you occupy it may be difficult to see that others have discussions about strategy and goals. Rest assured, even if anarchism should feel its death blow, it is not out lack of theory and experiment--which is the result of a lot of questions of strategy in the last ten years. Perhaps it will be because of it.

It might be that what felt like a unity which could be observed by the repetition of the same slogans and signs at an event of the so-called anti-war movement was merely the fabrication of the media, and the managers of the anti-war movement. It is more than likely that the moments of intensity we felt from '99 to the early '00s, and then later from '03 on, were always the result of collective gestures which revealed a certain complicity across different social groupings. And whose complicities gave rise to the war-zone described in the article.

As for the addiction...

Certainly we could use psychology to understand why people want to riot, or perhaps a complex reading of material conditions and history could help us out. I choose the later. Content wishes to leave form. Class struggle, civil war. Ever since bodies have found their selves surrounded and dominated by objects and specifically commodities, they tend to destroy them.

The object is the me that I can't be. I am ever-so-jealous of its attention and superior masochism. And when I see my self in it, I am reminded of how I am produced and subjugated by it; even how we are peers.

Capitalism is not an enemy which faces me, it is fabric which holds me and structures all of my relationships. Thus, the destruction of commodities and property, and low-intensity combat with its policing forces, is not a moral obligation, nor a strategic chess move per se. It is rather one of the only practical gestures which reveal the ethico-political terms of social war: the immediate rupture of "friendship" with "policing", and the immediate rupture of "proletarianized life" with "capital."

Movement for Economic Justice? Really? WTF dude? I can respect that you've been around for a minute, but how does your concept of history and how change is achieve correspond to mine? I mean, you're on some progress shit. Revolution is not a progressive shift, its a rupture with capitalist-time and the subjectivity of the state-form. We're serious about this Walter Benjamin shit, and all of the most interesting experiments in anarchy and communism have been too. From the Paris Commune to Spain to the events of 68. We're serious about the good life only being remotely possible through the self-abolition of the proletariat. If you can't see the proletarianized forms-of-life through their black veneers and become sensitized to how that is reflected in all of the uprisings which form the content of the last ten years, then perhaps we have irreconcilable differences on what the political is.

1. Liberal thought and its apparatuses produce a capitalist-form of life whose only function is generating capital.

2. To begin to break with any of this capitalist subsumption must be combated through ruptures with the docility of being-human (which is to say being-capital)

3. The protest is only a site of this potential rupture because it is structured by capital--even the anarchist can be the loyal opposition (since there is no "left" in the US), by marching into a fucking militarized photo-op, for example.

4. The potential rupture takes place as desubjectivization. The protester interrupts her function, by rioting irrationally, and refusing her role.

5. The protester reveals their ungovernability by becoming attached to a war machine (which is the social force before the military) and attacks the metropolitan network (the material flows of capital) at a different level and on different terms. Rioting is the first response, perhaps there will be other ways which follow. For example, a homophobe who challenged our multiple bodies thresholds got beat up on Thursday night. This is significant because, the bashback! march is located as site where queer bodies, and straight bodies, and feminized labor, form a terrible communion. Basically, normally these social groupings do not find eachother and go on a fucking rampage... And perhaps there is a moment where we will see new subjectivities besides the protester engaging in this interruption, like for example, bodies figured as dysfunctional--bodies who occupy wheelchairs--occupying space and remapping the topography of the city with ruptures.

6. Movements are made to die, build the party (which is to say, the partisan war machine of insurrection)

Are We Addicted to Rioting?
Authored by: veranasi on Tuesday, September 29 2009 @ 04:34 PM UTC
<P STYLE="margin-bottom: 0in">A few things: a couple of us were
examining your response, you and Ryan are in fact speaking two
different languages. Further there are a number of flaws in your
reasoning.</P>
<P STYLE="margin-bottom: 0in"><BR>
</P>

<P STYLE="margin-bottom: 0in"><BR>
</P>
<P STYLE="margin-bottom: 0in">As for the addiction...</P>
<P STYLE="margin-bottom: 0in"><BR>
</P>
<P STYLE="margin-bottom: 0in"><I>Certainly we could use psychology to
understand why people want to riot, or perhaps a complex reading of
material conditions and history could help us out. I choose the
later. </I>
</P>
<P STYLE="margin-bottom: 0in"><BR>
</P>
<P STYLE="margin-bottom: 0in; font-style: normal">Can you explain
your choice of Essentialism in this argument, I'll explain later.</P>
<P STYLE="margin-bottom: 0in"><BR>
</P>
<P STYLE="margin-bottom: 0in"><I>Content wishes to leave form. Class
struggle, civil war. Ever since bodies have found their selves
surrounded and dominated by objects and specifically commodities,
they tend to destroy them.</I></P>

<P STYLE="margin-bottom: 0in"><BR>
</P>
<P STYLE="margin-bottom: 0in; font-style: normal">This is an
incredible assumption. Is not true that some bodies prefer to be
dominated?
</P>
<P STYLE="margin-bottom: 0in"><BR>
</P>
<P STYLE="margin-bottom: 0in"><I>The object is the me that I can't
be. I am ever-so-jealous of its attention and superior masochism. And
when I see my self in it, I am reminded of how I am produced and
subjugated by it; even how we are peers.</I></P>
<P STYLE="margin-bottom: 0in"><BR>
</P>
<P STYLE="margin-bottom: 0in; font-style: normal">Why yes, it is
true.
</P>
<P STYLE="margin-bottom: 0in"><BR>
</P>
<P STYLE="margin-bottom: 0in"><I>Capitalism is not an enemy which
faces me, it is fabric which holds me and structures all of my
relationships. Thus, the destruction of commodities and property, and
low-intensity combat with its policing forces, is not a moral
obligation, nor a strategic chess move per se. It is rather one of
the only practical gestures which reveal the ethico-political terms
of social war: the immediate rupture of &quot;friendship&quot; with

&quot;policing&quot;, and the immediate rupture of &quot;proletarianized
life&quot; with &quot;capital.&quot;</I></P>
<P STYLE="margin-bottom: 0in"><BR>
</P>
<P STYLE="margin-bottom: 0in; font-style: normal">Liam, practical
gestures which reveal ethico-political terms? There are
pseudo-non-moralisms masquerading as morals?</P>
<P STYLE="margin-bottom: 0in"><BR>
</P>
<P STYLE="margin-bottom: 0in"><BR>
</P>
<P STYLE="margin-bottom: 0in"><BR>
</P>

<P STYLE="margin-bottom: 0in"><I>1.Liberal thought and its
apparatuses produce a capitalist-form of life whose only function is
generating capital.</I></P>
<OL>
<P STYLE="margin-bottom: 0in"></P>
</OL>
<P STYLE="margin-bottom: 0in; font-style: normal">Is this true? Can
we assume that thoughts are only open to interpretation? Do fascists
thought only produce fascist-forms? Then Agamben is a fascist, so is
Arendt, and anyone who perused philosophy after the Plato.</P>
<P STYLE="margin-bottom: 0in; font-style: normal"><BR>
</P>
<P STYLE="margin-bottom: 0in"><BR>
</P>
<P STYLE="margin-bottom: 0in"><I>2. To begin to break with any of
this capitalist subsumption must be combated through ruptures with
the docility of being-human (which is to say being-capital)</I></P>
<P STYLE="margin-bottom: 0in"><BR>
</P>
<P STYLE="margin-bottom: 0in; font-style: normal">And rupture is not
a static-form. Rupture is sporadic and will only come from the least
expected places. All options out to be available, yes?

</P>
<P STYLE="margin-bottom: 0in"><BR>
</P>
<P STYLE="margin-bottom: 0in"><BR>
</P>
<P STYLE="margin-bottom: 0in"><BR>
</P>
<P STYLE="margin-bottom: 0in"><I>4. The potential rupture takes place
as desubjectivization. The protester interrupts her function, by
rioting irrationally, and refusing her role.</I></P>
<P STYLE="margin-bottom: 0in"><BR>
</P>
<P STYLE="margin-bottom: 0in"><BR>
</P>
<P STYLE="margin-bottom: 0in; font-style: normal">This is assuming
that rioting was the grand scheme to begin with. They tried out new
toys. What if she was assuming a role prescribed? While certainly a
choice was made, and perhaps irrationally, but the notion of refusal
hinges on the persons demanding.</P>
<P STYLE="margin-bottom: 0in"><BR>
</P>

<P STYLE="margin-bottom: 0in"><I>5.The protester reveals their
ungovernability by becoming attached to a war machine (which is the
social force before the military) and attacks the metropolitan
network (the material flows of capital) at a different level and on
different terms. Rioting is the first response, perhaps there will be
other ways which follow. For example, a homophobe who challenged our
multiple bodies thresholds got beat up on Thursday night. This is
significant because, the bashback! march is located as site where
queer bodies, and straight bodies, and feminized labor, form a
terrible communion. Basically, normally these social groupings do not
find eachother and go on a fucking rampage... And perhaps there is a
moment where we will see new subjectivities besides the protester
engaging in this interruption, like for example, bodies figured as
dysfunctional--bodies who occupy wheelchairs--occupying space and
remapping the topography of the city with ruptures.</I></P>
<OL START=5>
<P STYLE="margin-bottom: 0in"></P>
</OL>
<P STYLE="margin-bottom: 0in; font-style: normal">Ungovernability?
Really, they became to most hated and yet, most powerful entity in
the social spectrum by becoming attached to a war machine? At best,
the entire commune became ungovernable, and for that to happen either
persons were not arrested or their arrests were remanded to nil. Or
they were all murdered. Don't become addicted to the Aristotelean
terms which are meant to be used against you. Your imagery after the
word &ldquo;which follow&rdquo; is breath-taking. But, did Bash Back
hang out and chill? Because they were in one of the dens of
homophobia and heterosexism. Did just fuck shit up and split back to
Chicago/Milwaukee or did they bring their fellow queers into the
insurrection. Word is they douche-bagged them. The use of others
bodies for a political purpose... When bodies find themselves the
products of commodification..... Sometimes all you have to do to
commodify others is to attach a label similar to others. The
domination of others' bodies may be shared by unassuming dominators.</P>
<P STYLE="margin-bottom: 0in"><BR>
</P>
<P STYLE="margin-bottom: 0in"><I>6.Movements are made to die, build
the party (which is to say, the partisan war machine of insurrection)</I></P>
<P STYLE="margin-bottom: 0in"><BR>
</P>

<P STYLE="margin-bottom: 0in; font-style: normal">Ultimately, the
terms are the same.</P>
readable response
Authored by: veranasi on Tuesday, September 29 2009 @ 05:50 PM UTC

A few things: a couple of us were examining your response, you and Ryan are in fact speaking two different languages. Further there are a number of flaws in your reasoning.



As for the addiction...


Certainly we could use psychology to understand why people want to riot, or perhaps a complex reading of material conditions and history could help us out. I choose the later.


Can you explain your choice of Essentialism in this argument, I'll explain later.


Content wishes to leave form. Class struggle, civil war. Ever since bodies have found their selves surrounded and dominated by objects and specifically commodities, they tend to destroy them.


This is an incredible assumption. Is not true that some bodies prefer to be dominated?


The object is the me that I can't be. I am ever-so-jealous of its attention and superior masochism. And when I see my self in it, I am reminded of how I am produced and subjugated by it; even how we are peers.


Why yes, it is true.


Capitalism is not an enemy which faces me, it is fabric which holds me and structures all of my relationships. Thus, the destruction of commodities and property, and low-intensity combat with its policing forces, is not a moral obligation, nor a strategic chess move per se. It is rather one of the only practical gestures which reveal the ethico-political terms of social war: the immediate rupture of "friendship" with "policing", and the immediate rupture of "proletarianized life" with "capital."


Liam, practical gestures which reveal ethico-political terms? There are pseudo-non-moralisms masquerading as morals?




1.Liberal thought and its apparatuses produce a capitalist-form of life whose only function is generating capital.

Is this true? Can we assume that thoughts are only open to interpretation? Do fascists thought only produce fascist-forms? Then Agamben is a fascist, so is Arendt, and anyone who perused philosophy after Plato.



2. To begin to break with any of this capitalist subsumption must be combated through ruptures with the docility of being-human (which is to say being-capital)


And rupture is not a static-form. Rupture is sporadic and will only come from the least expected places. All options ought to be available, yes?




4. The potential rupture takes place as desubjectivization. The protester interrupts her function, by rioting irrationally, and refusing her role.



This is assuming that rioting wasn't the grand scheme to begin with. They (the polis) tried out new toys. What if she was assuming a role prescribed? While certainly a choice was made, and perhaps irrationally, but the notion of refusal hinges on the other persons demanding.


5.The protester reveals their ungovernability by becoming attached to a war machine (which is the social force before the military) and attacks the metropolitan network (the material flows of capital) at a different level and on different terms. Rioting is the first response, perhaps there will be other ways which follow. For example, a homophobe who challenged our multiple bodies thresholds got beat up on Thursday night. This is significant because, the bashback! march is located as site where queer bodies, and straight bodies, and feminized labor, form a terrible communion. Basically, normally these social groupings do not find eachother and go on a fucking rampage... And perhaps there is a moment where we will see new subjectivities besides the protester engaging in this interruption, like for example, bodies figured as dysfunctional--bodies who occupy wheelchairs--occupying space and remapping the topography of the city with ruptures.

Ungovernability? Really, they became to most hated and yet, most powerful entity in the social spectrum by becoming attached to a war machine? At best, the entire commune became ungovernable, and for that to happen either persons were not arrested or their arrests were remanded to nil. Or they were all murdered. Don't become addicted to the Aristotelean terms which are meant to be used against you. Your imagery after the word “which follow” is breath-taking. But, did Bash Back hang out and chill? Because they were in one of the dens of homophobia and heterosexism. Did they just fuck shit up and split back to Chicago/Milwaukee or did they bring their fellow queers into the insurrection? Word is, they douche-bagged them. The use of others bodies for a political purpose... When bodies find themselves the products of commodification..... Sometimes all you have to do to commodify others is to attach a label similar to others. The domination of others' bodies may be shared by unassuming dictators.


6.Movements are made to die, build the party (which is to say, the partisan war machine of insurrection)


Ultimately, the terms are the same. You are on the same world, speaking a different language. You just have yet to move beyond ideology. And that's fine, just admit it.

I do love reading responses
Authored by: alta fuoco on Thursday, October 01 2009 @ 01:29 AM UTC

bold = vernasi

italics = Alta's previous post

regual = current comments by Alta

A few things: a couple of us were examining your response, you and Ryan are in fact speaking two different languages. Further there are a number of flaws in your reasoning.

My reason is flawless because I am endowed with the spirit. Your discourse attempts to assassinate the spirit through its secularizing mysticism. Shame on the partisans of multi-disciplinarianism and their democratizing project!

As for the addiction...

Certainly we could use psychology to understand why people want to riot, or perhaps a complex reading of material conditions and history could help us out. I choose the later.

Can you explain your choice of Essentialism in this argument, I'll explain later.

I favor the myth of sense, which links beings and time, as the best way to develop strategies to depose both.

Content wishes to leave form. Class struggle, civil war. Ever since bodies have found their selves surrounded and dominated by objects and specifically commodities, they tend to destroy them.

This is an incredible assumption. Is not true that some bodies prefer to be dominated?

Of course bodies want to be dominated, but by others who perform subjectivity. No one likes an object who pretends to be a subject! However, desiring objects are divine.

Capitalism is not an enemy which faces me, it is fabric which holds me and structures all of my relationships. Thus, the destruction of commodities and property, and low-intensity combat with its policing forces, is not a moral obligation, nor a strategic chess move per se. It is rather one of the only practical gestures which reveal the ethico-political terms of social war: the immediate rupture of "friendship" with "policing", and the immediate rupture of "proletarianized life" with "capital."

Liam, practical gestures which reveal ethico-political terms? There are pseudo-non-moralisms masquerading as morals?

I say ethics because "happiness" is the originary imperative of the practice of the "the politcal." In the riot, the occupation, the collective confrontation, "friendship" and "policing" are revealed as categories which take on a particular sense.

1.Liberal thought and its apparatuses produce a capitalist-form of life whose only function is generating capital.

Is this true? Can we assume that thoughts are only open to interpretation? Do fascists thought only produce fascist-forms? Then Agamben is a fascist, so is Arendt, and anyone who perused philosophy after Plato.

"liberal thought and its apparatuses." The apparatus (disposif) is the mechanism, or form of organization of repressive labor which forms dispositions or inclinations through its discipline and enforcement of nomos (the law or "the word"). Liberalism is indicted, not simply because it relies on a notion of inside and outside and it see's man as essentially "good" who must be protected from that which is essentially bad or unknown, but because the way it completes itself. The consistency between thought and act of liberalism generates a society of prisons, police, security cameras and camps along side images and capital.

No not all who dabble in philosophy are fascists--close though. However, every philosopher after Plato, if they wish to truly fulfill philosophy must make their task, one way or the other, the abolition of philosophers.

2. To begin to break with any of this capitalist subsumption must be combated through ruptures with the docility of being-human (which is to say being-capital)

And rupture is not a static-form. Rupture is sporadic and will only come from the least expected places. All options ought to be available, yes?

Yeah totally, like Zapatistas and stuff.

4. The potential rupture takes place as desubjectivization. The protester interrupts her function, by rioting irrationally, and refusing her role.

This is assuming that rioting wasn't the grand scheme to begin with. They (the polis) tried out new toys. What if she was assuming a role prescribed? While certainly a choice was made, and perhaps irrationally, but the notion of refusal hinges on the other persons demanding.

Was a choice made? I don't think the protester made any choice to interrupt her function, I think she as figure was a multiplicity of collective forces, which at decisive moments revealed her inclinations and anxieties. It's true, the state may have wanted this to happen, but i think that framework is not compatible with my freaky cult of complexity theory and political-theology, so I'm going to make my analysis from a different position.

5.The protester reveals their ungovernability by becoming attached to a war machine (which is the social force before the military) and attacks the metropolitan network (the material flows of capital) at a different level and on different terms. Rioting is the first response, perhaps there will be other ways which follow. For example, a homophobe who challenged our multiple bodies thresholds got beat up on Thursday night. This is significant because, the bashback! march is located as site where queer bodies, and straight bodies, and feminized labor, form a terrible communion. Basically, normally these social groupings do not find eachother and go on a fucking rampage... And perhaps there is a moment where we will see new subjectivities besides the protester engaging in this interruption, like for example, bodies figured as dysfunctional--bodies who occupy wheelchairs--occupying space and remapping the topography of the city with ruptures.

Ungovernability? Really, they became to most hated and yet, most powerful entity in the social spectrum by becoming attached to a war machine? At best, the entire commune became ungovernable, and for that to happen either persons were not arrested or their arrests were remanded to nil. Or they were all murdered. Don't become addicted to the Aristotelean terms which are meant to be used against you. Your imagery after the word “which follow” is breath-taking. But, did Bash Back hang out and chill? Because they were in one of the dens of homophobia and heterosexism. Did they just fuck shit up and split back to Chicago/Milwaukee or did they bring their fellow queers into the insurrection? Word is, they douche-bagged them. The use of others bodies for a political purpose... When bodies find themselves the products of commodification..... Sometimes all you have to do to commodify others is to attach a label similar to others. The domination of others' bodies may be shared by unassuming dictators.

I'm actually confused about what you're asking here and implying about bash back (or is it a certain crew of bash back?) What's wrong with sharing others bodies? Especially dictating that sharing in an unassuming way? (it does make an ass out of you and me)

If what you mean is insurrectional whatevers didn't fight behind the same barricade of fratboys and students chanting go pitt, but rather broke everything they could and peaced. OK. But that may not really imply much. The way that practices are shared may take place at a different level than the material and its most densely populated territories in the metropolis--even in a riot. What I mean is that the micro-singularity of a summit riot is a reflection of a singularity of, for example Greece, or France in '05/'06 or the Oaxaca uprising. The way history is generated is no longer the direct transfer of material goods, but rather the generation of subjectivites and symbolic value indistinguishably from materiality. blablabla the spectacle.

6.Movements are made to die, build the party (which is to say, the partisan war machine of insurrection)

Ultimately, the terms are the same. You are on the same world, speaking a different language. You just have yet to move beyond ideology. And that's fine, just admit it.

I cannot move beyond ideology, I can only be taken by whatever which imposes new conditions to move me beyond the illusion of ideology.

kisses!

I do love reading responses
Authored by: veranasi on Friday, October 02 2009 @ 10:44 AM UTC
Congratulations on step one of honesty. This juncture for you is important, not just for you but many insurrectionists whose "theory" fails them. You are clever and cleverer on you use of the Spirit. Religious Doctrine operates in a vacuum; it has it's own logic that can only be parsed within its own experience. This is not philosophy or critical theory, it's theology. A theological framework allows for of the symbolisms that you and the TCI wing of IA can pervert. I would suggest sticking with this theological/mystic/holy passions approach, because, at best, it allows for TCI's corruption of theory to manifest in its own cult.

As for Bash Backing, the use of an identity for the sake of being the immortal suicide bomber demands evangelistic profit. If the purpose was to be the Snakehandlers, speaking in tongues, then all we have is the exploitation of identity for the sake of being drama queens. Pennsylvania is notorious for its homophobia and heterosexism. St. Pittsburgh is an overwhelmingly Catholic town. Was BB!'s goal to confront this? Perhaps share in liberating practice with those affected in the region? Or was it a hallmark of Better-than-you-snakehandler fundamentalism in the middle of G20 summit. I'm not condemning BB! Uh, it's just that members of the local population I talked to were confused.

The exploitation of identity will always commodify others in the identification, meaning, what made this any different than Budweiser? Different forms of capital?

Are We Addicted to Rioting?
Authored by: bny on Monday, September 28 2009 @ 11:19 AM UTC
knowing a lot of the people who have posted on here, i can't help but notice some very significant points:

1) it's true, a lot of anarchists do great work in their communities. not having been in pittsburgh i don't who was there and what kind of work was represented. that said, most anarchists i know don't. instead, they have great sounding projects which are fun for one or two people and have all the language (i.e. community based solutions, grassroots, root cause), but don't have the results because it stagnates as soon as it gets more than an inch away from those one or two people's fingers. i can't begin to think of how many "community gardens" exist in people's backyards, and they have their friends from the other community house across town come and share the harvest. or an infoshop where people who aren't hipster (used to be punk, but now most anarchists are hipsters. yeah, i said it and it felt good) don't feel that welcome because they don't fit in. i've walked into many a "community space" where i wasn't welcome because i didn't look the part and never have.

2) not being witness to what happened in pittsburgh, don't be surprised when i say that it doesn't seem like much happened because all i got were corporate news reports, twitter-length updates on indypgh or g20media, and the crimethinc report which reading it feels like every other reportback from actions and mobilizations which -didn't- go well but still got declared a massive success. i can't take anarchist propaganda for what it says, because i've seen it lie too many times (about mobilizations and community organizing).

3) i've also held too many traumatized friends (and been held myself) who've come back from mass mobilizations which were declared a success. people who've been around for a decade and still active organizers are so few because of trauma, not because they were secret liberals who never really believed in anarchy. if we were more serious about the need for street confrontations, we would have long ago set up the infrastructure to support people who are hurt in said confrontations. this responsibility lies on every single person who was in pittsburgh (or miami, or quebec city, or etc...) to set up BEFORE going, not some immediate crisis response afterwards. i'm at fault for this as well.

4) lastly, Ryan didn't ask for people to give him answers and prove that some kind of merit for being in pittsburgh. rather, he asked people to reflect on the successes and failures of an anarchist movement that for all intents and purposes regularly falls short of it's stated goal of community power and grassroots conflict with the state. rather than answering Ryan, let's all find the anarchists in our communities that this does apply to and have them answer these questions.
Are We Addicted to Rioting?
Authored by: biofilo on Monday, September 28 2009 @ 01:13 PM UTC
You say "and the crimethinc report which reading it feels like every other reportback from actions and mobilizations which -didn't- go well but still got declared a massive success."

Dude, did you read it? That report is just an event-by-event account of what happened that day, with a few emotional descriptors thrown in. It's not just some rhetorical rehash. It describes what happened, in much more concrete terms than your average reportback, and even provides links for corroboration.

I'm really frustrated by the implication that CrimethInc. reports are just cheerleading inflation. The RNC/DNC analysis explored the strengths and shortcomings of both events in detail; the Rolling Thunder SHAC analysis concluded that the greatest strengths of the SHAC model were its fatal flaws; moreover, multiple CrimethInc. analyses actually seek out failed examples to learn from, such as the "Fix Shit Up" campaign, the Root Force campaign, "insurrection night" from 2004, and the 2004 RNC (which might be easy to declare a victory if one weren't being self-critical).

Maybe the anarchist movement tends to declare victories prematurely--probably no more so than communists, capitalists, other liberals, etc.--but don't just make blanket unfounded allegations. That makes you sound like Ryan Harvey.
Are We Addicted to Rioting?
Authored by: communitycntrl on Monday, September 28 2009 @ 05:03 PM UTC
i really appreciate all the hard work that goes into crimethinc's relentless coverage and analysis of the anarchist movement.

it is really invaluable work.

as is all the hard work of the amazing people in PGH who worked on this summit and work in their communities every day. i have been consistently impressed with pittsburgh's anarchists for years now and they should know that they are an inspiring bunch!
Are We Addicted to Rioting?
Authored by: sweet tea on Monday, September 28 2009 @ 01:44 PM UTC
as stated earlier, there WAS a trauma center set up befor ehand, during, and after, for precisely this purpose. The people there were fantastic, they should be recognized for it, not be ignored in an attempt to discredit organizers or somehow be fuel to the argument that rioting is bad becuase it creates trauma that we are unable to deal with.
Are We Addicted to Rioting?
Authored by: communitycntrl on Tuesday, September 29 2009 @ 05:09 PM UTC
is there an anarchist pamphlet about PTSD that they put out at the center?
is it available online?
it would be good to post the link if so.
Are We Addicted to Rioting?
Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, September 28 2009 @ 11:54 AM UTC
This article is trash. What happened in Pittsburgh a few days ago was the most successful action by US anarchists in years, maybe decades. It was probably even more successful than the Battle of Seattle in 1999. I don't understand why this article is on Infoshop News. Could who ever allowed this to get posted here give me an explanation. I want some answers.
Are We Rioting Enough?
Authored by: Gerald on Monday, September 28 2009 @ 12:50 PM UTC

yeah I'm sick of all this negativity, can we talk about what we did right for once?
Are We Addicted to Rioting?
Authored by: sweet tea on Monday, September 28 2009 @ 01:39 PM UTC
I'm glad to see that, over all, the comments here reflect a diverse and broad frustration with the kind of "position" that ryan is taking here.

Ive been involved in many of the kinds of movements Ryan has, for over a decade, and come from the anti-glob. era as well, as perhaps he does. I share many of his worries listed here, particularly our frequent lack of collective awareness as to how irrelevant we are to others' daily struggle/life in the towns we live in. The recent insurrectionary trend is an easy target for this frustration, but if Ryan thinks back he will remember that this was no less the case years ago when insurrectionary anarchism was mainly still just a small At Daggers Drawn pamphlet yet to sail across the Atlantic. The "community organizing" of many "social/economic justice" projects is just as irrelevant, and everyone knows it.

And for the record, ryan, are you really bringing out the community organizing vs. conflict with the state model? Really??? I thought we got over that years ago. You as well as I know, that for a group of neighbors or workers or whatever to get together in their town, assess their needs, and acheive them, REQUIRES conflict with the powers that be. If we could get it without conflict, we would have already gotten it. A revolution implies conflict with the State, as well as a discourse that recognizes that implication. Your discourse ignores this completely, pretending violence and brutality are something that we can turn off by simply "returning to the communities." I live in a neighborhood fighting a condo development, heavily policed; you can sit on my porch and watch police harassing my neighbors. I cant turn off the violence of my neighborhood by returning to my community. It is a daily reality for those around me, and to some extent, for me as well.

Finally, I just want to say this: I was in Pgh. Ryan clearly was not. The crimethinc report that was posted just hours after the first day is not inflation. It is an accurate report, and if anything downplays some of the conflict that occurred, rather than the other way around. Were Ryan there, he would know this. Were he there, ryan would have experienced the most exciting mass mobilization, both in terms of the depth of the political discourse taking place among a wide variety of folks (as mentioned by kansasmutualaid earlier), as well as more successful confrontation with the State and Capital than has been seen in many, many years. These things were accomplished by a wide variety of people and perspectives, ranging from the door to door neighborhood conversations of POG to the window-smashing, rock-throwing, dumpster-into-cops-to-block-their-cars-from-following-us-bowling black bloc that managed to pull off the first media-declared riots of the Obama era.

PS.....
By the way, the anti-war movement was, by its end, hardly able to get out the numbers that were there for the big march on Friday. People were bored with it: it spoke effectively neither to its participants' desires nor to those in power. It was a sheep-herding, permitted marching, stalinist recruiting ground. Let it die, ryan. Let's move on.
Are We Addicted to Rioting?
Authored by: beret on Monday, September 28 2009 @ 01:44 PM UTC
I think it's important to realize that a anger at the cops and anger at anarchists isn't mutually exclusive, and my impression is that both sides have seriously alienated the population. The fact that kids are willing to gather in a park (After being sent text messages warning of "Deteriorating Conditions" in Schenley) to watch the spectacle of more cops than probably any of them have seen in their lives, and are pissed and scared when shot at with gas and projectiles, doesn't mean that I've come across much more in the way of reaction toward protesters than hostility or at best ambivalence. I dunno, it sounds like other people may have had different experiences, but that was my impression.
Are We Addicted to Rioting?
Authored by: Admin on Monday, September 28 2009 @ 02:13 PM UTC
"Let's take anarchism out of the streets for a while and put it back in the communities where it was born."

This kind f argument illustrates why I've become alienated and tired of the contemporary anarchist movement in the United States.

A mobilization against an international summit of capitalists should not be cause for criticism of anarchists' involvement in their communities. While community organizing will hopefully build the groundwork for summit mobilizations--as they did in the late 1990s--this is still a protest against an international capitalist meeting. It is an *international* event, not a community scale event.

It's also a bit reckless to make assumptions about the community organizing habits of the people who organized and participated in these protests. How can any of us know what these people are doing, unless we rely on our personal knowledge of these people or some kind of organized survey.

Lastly, why should every visible manifestation of anarchists be the cause for people to complain about topics totally unrelated to the focus and scope of these protests?

Chuck0
Are We Addicted to Rioting?
Authored by: corporatecrimina on Monday, September 28 2009 @ 04:56 PM UTC
Chuck, I understand your criticism of that specific quote from Ryan's article, but I would think you would appreciate his general argument. I feel like you and Ryan are using different words, but are saying pretty similar things.

I've taken your previous comments to say that you feel that current anarchist action and organizing is disconnected from reality and irrelevant to working people and that the tactics used (i.e. the Black Bloc) are obsolete and self-marginalizing. I think Ryan is saying something pretty parallel to that. He's criticizing anarchists who thoughtlessly repeat the same tactics (i.e. the Black Bloc) we've used for years. He's saying that taking action without connection to certain communities is counter productive.

I'm not trying to for or against what either or you are saying, I'm just a little surprised that your response seems to be so negative to this article.
Are We Addicted to Rioting?
Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, September 28 2009 @ 02:13 PM UTC
"I came from this scene, learned all the tactical terms, and met many good people who I ran in the streets with, and we got into some crazy situations. I have been around the bloc a few times. I have inhaled tear gas and pepper spray, heard the close-up clicks on the infamous taser, and heard the sobering sounds of riot batons breaking human bones. I once saw a guy almost burn a hole in his hand throwing a tear gas canister back at the police in Quebec City in 2001. At the beginning of the Iraq war, I helped drag a 16 year-old girl away from a group of police who were beating her in DC. Both her ankles and one of her arms were broken. In Miami in 2003, I heard the explosion of "less-lethal" weapons and heard a loud pop next to me. As I turned, a middle-aged woman was starting to run away with blood literally pouring out of her mouth. She had been hit in the face with a rubber bullet."

Ryan you should not blame anarchists for the brutal actions of the police. The cops could have just stayed home during our protests instead they CHOSE to go out of their way and attack us. The cops are 100% responsible for their actions. Don't ever blame people for stuff they didn't do.
Are We Addicted to Rioting?
Authored by: Carl on Monday, September 28 2009 @ 02:22 PM UTC
I was contemplating writing something yesterday, generally about Pittsburgh but more specifically about the state of the anarchist movement in the US. but then I read this, and all the subsequent comments, and I felt that just about everything I felt had been said already. There's a lot of things to respond to, but let me start out by saying that Ryan's article is like 99% right on. The only thing I notice is that it might have been better to issue a larger critique of anarchist organizing, instead of Pittsburgh specifically. From what it sounds/looks like, although the G20 protests were probably not a whopping "success," seeing thousands of people in an unpermitted, largely anarchist-organized march was uplifting for me personally. I think the Resistance Project, POG, and other groups that made it happen deserve a huge pat on the back from all of us.
I don't see Ryan's comments as criticizing that work, but as trying to push all of us to be better. Sometimes we get so caught up in this idea that if we just have the right politics and rhetoric, or if we come close to replicating what happens in Greece, then that makes us relevant and effective. Keep in mind, please, that this is not Greece, or Oaxaca, or Argentina, or anywhere else but here. We have very specific conditions in front of us, informed by a long history, and it is vastly different from our comrades in Europe, and Latin America, and everywhere. We can take inspiration from them, but let's not get trapped in this mindset of "well, they do it in Greece, so fuck it."
I also understand why people who were in Pittsburgh would disagree with Ryan's assessment, and I think many of the responses have been respectful and insightful. When you have been a crazy situation and seen your friends get beat down, arrested, or you have been hurt yourself, the last thing you need to hear is that "it wasn't strategic what you did." Even if we disagree with the direction the movement is headed in currently, we must always lend our support to these comrades who decided to fight in Pittsburgh. First, let's support them, and then move on to thinking about the future. to be clear, I think that's what Ryan is doing. This is not a harsh condemnation of the brave G20 protesters, but a thoughtful call out to all of us that we may strengthen our collective movement for liberation.

the last point I want to touch on ('cause I feel like I'm a bit incoherent right now), is that I absolutely agree with the push towards building anarchist community organizing. This is something that we have lost somewhere along the road. and contrary to the claim that community organizing is somehow inherently "liberal," I would offer up all the examples of revolutionary movements in history. How did they win? why were they effective? It was not only through street battles (which were only the most visible manifestations of their efforts), but it was through hard-core, day after day, door-to-door, community work. The CNT in Spain took a generation to build itself to the point where it could actually take over industry. Black Panthers and other militants in the 60's (yea, i know, not anarchists...whatever), dedicated their entire lives to the struggle- living together, waking up every day at 6am to do work for the movement, usually not getting home til nightfall. and they built a movement in just a couple years that was public enemy #1 to american capitalism. Now, if we are to build that, we have got to do more than summit-hopping and an endless series of really really free markets, infoshops, and anarchist book-fairs. not that those things should go away (well, maybe in some cases), but if we're going to make them effective, they have got to be part of the community, not just of some scene. The infoshop where I live is amazing and has great potential, but no one even knows what it is. why is that? well, we haven't told anyone what it is because we're scared of talking to people. and most self-proclaimed anarchists are afraid of talking to people. why aren't we going door-to-door, with smiles on our faces, talking with our neighbors about all the rad shit we're doing? do we think they won't like it? When me and my comrades walk around on the weekends and hand out info about the police, we get 13-14 year old kids sayin "hell yeah, fuck the pigs!" and running towards us to get more information. What all this is saying is that we need a militancy that is based more on our day-to-day commitment to this struggle and our willingness to look at what is really needed, not just what seems sexy, or what our European comrades would approve of. (and a disclaimer: I do feel that it is unfair to make generalizations about the anarchist movement- it is quite true that many folks in Pittsburgh are deeply involved in day-to-day local struggles). If we can't get excited enough about our anarchist projects to go talk to our neighbors about them, how are going to build? If we can't be on time for our weekend events or meetings because we're too hungover, how exactly are we going to confront the state, which I assure you, always arrives on time to kick OUR ass? If we work so hard to acquire a community space, fill it with books, get a core group of volunteers to maintain it, and then have absolutely no one from the community use it or even know about it, why did we put the work in in the first place? Why are we even doing this?

I think a lot of the questions brought up in this discussion are important. And I just want to extend a lot of gratitude to those who risked their asses in Pittsburgh last week, and to all of those who got arrested. We might not see eye to eye, but we're on the same side here, so let's not get too worked up over our little differences. To those who wish to attack someone like Ryan for bringing up really relevant, helpful criticisms, maybe you should evaluate your own views on what a real, strong anarchist movement looks like. (here's a hint: it's not one where we all follow the anarchist party-line and don't self-criticize). Oh, and the very last thing- while I don't consider myself a huge follower of Crimethinc., I do agree with some of the comments made concerning their ability to be critical. Yes, sometimes they do inflate our actions- however, yes, their analysis of RNC/DNC protests was fabulous, and in no way exaggerated events. I hope and suspect that if they print a larger report on the G20, it will contain much of the same balance of praise and criticism.


ok, ya basta!

in solidarity,
carl, North Bay Area
Are We Addicted to Rioting?
Authored by: Killer Bunny on Monday, September 28 2009 @ 02:36 PM UTC
I have a huge amount of respect for Ryan and the work that he does. And I largely agree with his critiques of street action only organizing. But I really think that this article irresponsibly pushes aside some of the local organizing work that's been done in Pittsburgh over the past several months particularly.

The local outreach group of the Pittsburgh G-20 Resistance Project engaged in the most widespread anarchist canvasing operation I've seen in North America in recent history. Organizers knocked on somewhere around 9,000 doors, distributing literature and just talking with their neighbors. They handed out literature weekend after weekend in the open air market in the Strip District in Pittsburgh reaching thousands of other folks.

The opening event of the protests was not a street demonstration, it was a big public potluck dinner--Yes to Community, No to the G-20. And in sharp contrast to other mobilizations, a good chunk (30-40%) of the folks who came out were neighbors who were just curious and wanted to hear about what was going on.

POG's tactical training initiative facilitated about 10 'Introduction to the G-20, the IMF and the Global Financial Crisis' workshops throughout the summer, presenting the training to upwards of 500 people in Pittsburgh--once again the vast majority of participants were NOT from our traditional activist networks. It's at least interesting to note that while attendance at the Intro to the G-20 workshops averaged somewhere in the neighborhood of 40, the 'Mass Action' and 'lockboxes and lockdowns' workshops--also facilitated by POG's TTI--only netted 10-15 people each.

Another group of organizers involved in the PGRP thought that the high-brow language like 'neoliberalism' and discussion of the IMF and financial markets might be a little alienating so, embracing the local regional dialects, they printed and distributed hundreds of 'The G-20 is Full of Jaggoffs' t-shirts.

Out in the streets, folks involved in the more confrontational actions on Thursday also participated in the Thomas Merton Center's mass permitted 'Peoples' March' on Friday. In fact I'd estimate that at least a third of the people in explicitly non-violent and non confrontational 'the Peoples' March' were folks that had participated in the previous afternoon's 'Peoples' Uprising.'

So Ryan, I totally agree. Getting into the neighborhoods and into the union halls is great. But don't make these rash and irresponsible assumptions and accusations about our organizing here in Pittsburgh. We ARE in the neighborhoods, we ARE going door to door, we ARE doing popular community education, we ARE involved in worker organizing, we ARE involved in community farming...but also, we are and will continue to be in the streets.
Are We Addicted to Rioting?
Authored by: redsdisease on Monday, September 28 2009 @ 02:51 PM UTC
It's been said, but since this is a critique that I hear again and again, it can't be said enough: Don't assume that people who engage in blac blocs, break windows, go to mass mobilizations or whatever aren't involved in their community. It's dumb to think that because a person spends a week in Pittsburgh or a night breaking a bank window they are unable to spend the rest of their time on community projects.
Are We Addicted to Rioting?
Authored by: rt on Monday, September 28 2009 @ 04:52 PM UTC
I appreciate the dialogue going on here. One thing I would like to point out is that we by no means had the full support of local Pittsburghers. I had to hang back on the sidelines due to personal circumstances on Thursday, and while i heard plenty of people excited and in favor of us, there were also plenty of people pissed at us, and not the cops, that they couldn't get to the bus, or whatever. Including one man standing on his porch with a baseball bat ready to royally fuck up anyone that touched his shit. I think we just have to be honest that not everyone appreciated our presence there and shouldn't tokenize working class neighborhoods as automatically in our favor.

I'm not saying what folks did was wrong or anything, just giving a realistic assesment of what I saw.
Are We Addicted to Rioting?
Authored by: ryanharvey on Monday, September 28 2009 @ 06:26 PM UTC
Hey everyone, thanks for all the words.

While I appreciate a lot of this, both agreements and criticisms, I don't want it to turn into an internet-battle. There's plenty of things to agree and disagree on, and we don't need to come to consensus on it. While I have regrets about ways I worded things in my article, about assumptions I now see that I made (for instance, POG does wonderful work, and I have done many things with them in the past. Mad respect to yall, you are one of the anarchist groups I know of that's really stuck it out, applied yourselves both inside and outside of POG to real community work... and you don't disregard non-anarchist community work as "liberal" or pointless, and you have had your shit together enough to organize for larger demonstrations without shirking off your local responsibilities. That's rare and certainly worth a lot!).

And I am mad respectful to yall for putting so much work into PTSD prep, that's really good to know. I know some of yall who were involved on the medical end of things and I want to give you my sincere respect for that work, it is often thankless. I in no way meant to criticize you in my writings, I am very sorry if I came off that way. When I brought that up, I was reflecting a lot more on time's passed and taking a broader view. I ddi not mention Pittsburgh at all in that section. But also, it's true that long-term networks for those mentally effected by this work and our experiences, are very few and far between (the Catalyst Project provides one such space and lots of information.). I don't want to downplay this as something we need that we don't have, as if it's easy. It's a HUGE issue, far bigger than a few sentence can justify. So thanking for laying some seeds towards that goal. In my work with anti-war veterans and soldiers, we have a whole organization of counselors established, on a volunteer basis. That's a model that we could use in other places, sympathetic folks with skills in that area.

I was indeed attempting to promote dialogue, I apologize if I came off as shitting on people. I respect the people who put work into this, I don't want to make yall feel like you wasted your time, you didn't. The G20 should not go unopposed, I think the POG folks and the Merton center did a terrific job hosting these beloved world leaders.

A very painful feeling enters me sometimes when I get excited about a mass demonstration, which I was about Pittsburgh, excited that is. It's the feeling that I'm watching aspects of my life repeat themselves, and keeping my mouth shut with my warnings from lessons I've learned. I figured if others like some of my friends in Crimethinc are chiming in, I wanted to as well. And we've talked a bit, and I've explained that my using quotes from them was not meant in any way to call them out... I did not write this as a response to them, I simply used 2 quotes to help me make a point. I want to be clear about that, and regret not being more clear in my original article. I also should have been clear that this was not "about Pittsburgh", it was in light of it. I did not write to critique the G20 protests as an individual event, as I was not there and could not begin to have the understandings and experiences that would lead to it. It was more a movement-wide critique, drawing on recent events in Pittsburgh but also, if you read it, less-recent events in Miami, Denver, St. Paul, Quebec City, and others, all of which I was a first-hand participant in.

To make another thing very clear, I do not allude to any "street protest vs. community organizing" argument in my writing. I do not see any merit in such an argument. What I have seen is that this has been projected onto to my article for some reason. Read it more carefully. The ENTIRE second half of my writing negate's this argument. But I do argue a lot about street-protest and community organizing. Some want to have their cake and eat it too, that's fine. But we gotta have a cake to eat. That's where I chime in. I have disagreements about the size of our cake, or whatever or not the things we have in indeed a cake.

When I say we should take anarchism "out of the streets and put it back in the communities", I don't mean that in a "community organizing VS street action" way. I mean it in the way that Subcomandante Marcos and his early comrades when "back to the communities" after first attempting to start a Marxist insurrection in Chiapas, realizing the many faults in the assumptions they had made about the communities in Southern Mexico and their assumed tendency towards Marxist revolt. So for ten years they built, they listened, they "walked by asking", and they built a new, organic, non-dogmatic and very radical movement of people that was able to effectively defend it's culture and livelihoods against a major state-power. That's the kind of reflection/community focus that I'm alluding to. The Zapatistas had to "take it out of the streets" for a bit while they built something real, from which they would eventually fight to defend.

What I do argue is that there's a serious lack of community organizing in our society, and we are a group of people who can do that work if we apply ourselves. I wish more anarchist propaganda/conversation/art focused on this. That's part of why I said some of things I said. Our rhetoric is very militant, which is often also very macho. The Europeans call non-violent actions "fluffy", for instance. I wish we glorified the more grueling, less romantic, more time-consuming and madness producing work the way we glorify the actions.

To perhaps once again sound like a jackass, I think some of us may have some serious disagreements about what community organizing is and looks like. I think a lot of really important, very radical work is written off as "liberal". A response to my article, in an email, said "What troubles me is what separates us from being liberals?" My answer is don't worry what label you are called! Do the right things in the right situations! Follow your values, your values that say no one should rule another person, your anarchist values that say "justice for everyone". Follow them, not your political dogma, not your Ism, not your rhetoric. Follow the human values and let them lead you to your work.

The "liberal" argument is the anarchist version of the Right calling Obama a socialist. It's usually holier-than-thou bullshit. I have heard living wage campaigns among poor workers, of which I have been an organizer with a winning campaign here in Baltimore, called "reformist" and "liberal". Was the 8-hour day liberal? Then why the glorification of the Haymarket martyrs? Then fuck the Haymarket martyrs, right? If fighting for local economic and political reforms is a liberal act (because we need to smashing the state right?) then write off the wobblies, the entire civil rights movement, the suffragettes, APPO, most of the occupied-factories in Argentina, all the militant struggles against Apartheid, the movement against slavery, the uprising that resulted in the British getting punted out of 1/2 the world, the Palestinian struggles, and most others in the world. Non of them were "truly anarchist", who cares? They were right on. They are the events that gave life to a world-history of struggle.

A friend also said earlier that I sounded "like a dogmatic socialist", which is supposed to be another great insult to an anarchist. I think we have a lot to learn from dogmatic socialists about self-critique, and I think they have a lot learn from us about authoritarian ideas. I think we have a lot to learn from liberal organizers, who seems to be able to run successful campaigns and achieve real tangible victories. And they have a lot to learn from us about the real underlying issues in our society, focusing on causes, not symptoms.

I did not ever in my article say anything alluding to anarchists not being community organizers. I am one! A lot of my closest friends are too! I know this, I would never make such a naive assumption. So I'm sorry that I seemed to have alluded to that, I apologize, that was certainly not my intention.

To those of you who are calling me out in a hateful way, don't assume things on me either. I know plenty of you, folks I've been in some serious situations with. I know lots of you who spent a lot of time and energy organizing for these demonstrations. That said, I also understand how much energy and time goes into these things, I have dedicated rather large chunks of my young life to these same things. So when a person who's been there and has had these same similar experiences comes out and says something in an open-way, perhaps in too harsh a way, I would hope we take it to be a real thing, from a real place. Instead some of you have chosen to focus on my not being in Pittsburgh, which sounds a bit like a soldier saying "you have no right to criticize the war unless you were there". It's a valid feeling, not a valid point.

I struggle with these thoughts, and I don't like to criticize my friends in public. But these are such strong feelings, such lingering thoughts, that I felt I needed to put them out. I would have been in Pittsburgh 4 years ago, but I have felt lost lately... as have so many others. Is that not a valid story? Is it not valid when someone who has been a pretty far-reaching organizer for so long feels disconnected and disenchanted, not with politics or with radical views, but with the organizing happening in the movement/scene he came from? I think that's valid, and my sharing these views and ideas with so many friends in the last few years who had very similar experiences has pushed me to finally make a comment. But now my name will be attached to it as the one who finally said something. Just know that these are feelings of many, not one. Several folks have emailed or called me to express thanks for my writing of this, not to say they agreed 100 percent (which no no should, typically) but to say thanks for finally saying things that they had been too scared or confused to say. So, in this, I don't aim to lay down some sort of division. I wrote this to put questions out there. And from what I can see, at least folks are thinking about the criticisms.

As I see large numbers turn-out, the biggest anti-capitalist demo since Seattle according to one, I don't see a lot of folks I came of age with still out there. We have a HIGH tunrover rate, and there's reasons for it. That's a big topic too, and in order to not make assumptions as folks have pointed out that I have done, I'll leave that question open. A huge number on new young folks are turning out, where will they be in 3 years? Burned out like 75 percent of my old friends? I hope not, but I fear so. Because the nature of this movement hasn't really changed that mush.

Overall what my article yearns to discuss, is what this all means. What does it mean to have a large anarchist/black bloc mobilization? What's it mean to have "shown resistance" in the streets? I'm not saying it doesn't have meaning, please don't interpret it, I'm asking a question to which there may be many answers. These are very relevant answers. I don't have them, I am not writing to provide them. I'm writing to remind us to ask them.

Thanks yall, thanks for the dialogue. I'd love to talk to folks in person next time I see yall.

peace,
Ryan
Are We Addicted to Rioting?
Authored by: shevek on Monday, September 28 2009 @ 07:38 PM UTC
Damn Son,

Your response was better than the original article. Thanks for writing this. Lots of this needed to be said.
Are We Addicted to Rioting?
Authored by: veranasi on Monday, September 28 2009 @ 07:52 PM UTC
I guess it's something we are all talking about.

I didn't come in to this scene in the antiglob movement. I came in well before. I can say that to a certain extent I have purposely romanticized this movement and here's why: prior to Seattle there was swath of inactivity. Some that I associated with would read the occasional Chomsky book and hate Nazis but there was a sense of disconnection. I knew I wasn't welcome in Baltimore, as the scene at the time was very punky and aethestic driven. So, I mostly clung to my friends on the outskirts. That was anarchist life.

When I was enlisted (mid-nineties) in the military, things were so scattered and surreal that a group of anarchists actually hung out together, who were in the military.

Things were pretty lonely. Even the DC infoshop listserv was lonely ca. 1998. Lot's of vegan potlucks. I mean, for real, it seemed like anarchists were some potlucking fools.

The closest friend, in the movement, I had up until Seattle, I saw her last, on the day after N30. No, I wasn't on the West Coast. We discussed the event in her bedroom before she said she was not anarchist anymore.

But to know, from the demonstration, that I was not the only one was a wonderful experience. I mean, I wrote an embarrassing article at the time about those damn primmies and their property destruction, but honestly, there were other people out there! So, to work I went, I was no longer just CSA'n it or gardening, I was out and about organizing for antiglob stuffs, locally, until 9-11, And we all know why. Disenchanted and feeling sold out, I was mostly pissed, because having some sort of visibility made it easier to explain to others what it was we were trying to do.

In the mid to late nineties, if you told someone you were anarchist, they corrected you and called a communist and then wanted to know why you supported Stalin. If they didn't think you were a crypo-totalitarian then it was just simply cute and "I'm sure the government doesn't like you, too (wink, wink)."

Today, many of the concerns you address are being mulled over. Many from another time seem to hold disdain for this newer insurrection tendency. Well, many of them are looking at depoliticized community, in a way Catalyst would refuse. They are looking at closer inter-human relationships and cause/effect. Because of the difference of personalities in humans, not one way will work. So, it's very easy to label something as liberal because they might have had it forced on them. It's also easy to raise an eye at someone when they act out of sync. As for the turnover problem, it's very hard to address this. There are incredible lines that many won't cross. For every person who looks beyond ideology, there are others who demand that certain ideologies must be clung to as to not upset the good vs. evil construct that keeps our thoughts together.

Many many friends have moved on. Entire communities that I have worked with in the past have collapsed. The reason seemed to be "We aren't winning!" It's very hard to win when everyone fears suspicion.

There are many sectors of this insurrectionist tendency that are cult-like (ahem, ahem, religious post-left) and others where it's just a way to examine practices and relationships. This last part of the tendency I think is exactly what everyone seems to want. They are not going to judge you specifically on ideological lines, they don't even care if you are an anarchist. They don't usually refer to themselves as insurrectionists, mostly as just as "whatever." And those cats are the ones who desperately need insurrection, because their communities are fractured, they know it cos they work in their community spaces.

And thanks for your thoughts, Ryan.
Or perhaps we should pull some finger nails
Authored by: alta fuoco on Monday, September 28 2009 @ 08:48 PM UTC
"The "liberal" argument is the anarchist version of the Right calling Obama a socialist. It's usually holier-than-thou bullshit. I have heard living wage campaigns among poor workers, of which I have been an organizer with a winning campaign here in Baltimore, called "reformist" and "liberal". Was the 8-hour day liberal?... If fighting for local economic and political reforms is a liberal act (because we need to smashing the state right?) then write off [a bunch of stuff...]"

Perhaps many people use the term "liberal" as code for "not-so-cool," but the critique is real. "what makes us different from liberals?" is an important question and can only be answered when it is posed as "How are our practices different from liberal practices?" which will more than likely lead to combat.

Liberal thought is not just implicated in the practice of being a weeny, it has real consequences--most notably, capitalism and democratic regimes of biopower. Liberal thought is analogous to the enlightenment and its consequences. It solidified the very idea of "Man" as the subject of the civil state (or civil society, depending on who you ask), and the civil state as the form which takes place through the imposition of law--separating "Man" from other living beings. The practice of policing was born from this framework. When it was noticed that god is dead, the authority of sovereignty suffered a crisis of legitimacy: Debt/Guilt had to be maintained or law and order would collapse, society, the social, took on the position of the sovereign and the power over life and death--who only god could previously wield--was diffused to all elements of the state apparatus--even citizens. Thus society is maintained, not for any transcendental purpose, but merely to function

Whats even crazier is that liberal thought, whose objective it is to conceal all fucking intensities, makes the function of the state apparatus which blurs between the citizen-subject and police officer, to exist in permanent counter-insurgency. This is because for all the fucking tears shed the other, the state-form must rule through biopolitics, and must keep revealing enemies of "the good" (which doesn't even have a substance anymore!)

To be frank, liberal thought must write law on our bodies which conceal the many bodies we are and must discipline the many conflicting desires and forms of life which take us. For there to be "Man" either in his proletarian form, or bourgeoisie form, he must be constantly be severed from all of his other forms as debt/guilt to society. Policing, and capitalist subsumption fulfills this objective: to produce a living being called Man who is merely bare-life, and only an image of himself.

Coming to heads with liberal thought means becoming ungovernable, and revealing the gestures which rupture with our once sacred docile bodies. It means resisting its terms of war: "consensus," "democracy," "civil society." It means combating policing, and destructuring apparatuses whose subtle gestures attempt to neutralize that which could grow and spread. This is not an argument to man-up, its an exegesis to become inhuman; to find a way where we can return our bodies and everything to sphere of improvised free use.

I'm sure you can see how this is quite different from the normal function of the Left, anarchism and a movement for economic justice. Either way, I think it's important to know that liberal is not merely a bad word, its form of political discourse which insurrection is defeating.

kisses,
-Liam

ps: make critiques, sure, put perhaps we're speaking different languages. We may be attached to different worlds because your critiques simply don't have sense in the world which I and many others are now attached to.
Or perhaps we should pull some finger nails
Authored by: veranasi on Tuesday, September 29 2009 @ 04:41 PM UTC
The use of the word "liberal" as a pejorative has two major focal point: the right and the totalitarian Left. I am well aware Zerzan and Black's popularizing use of the term, well guess what? Zerzan originates from the totalitarian Left and Black has some incredibly douchey aspects.

The use of the word "liberal" by any of the sides indicates a lack of discipline to a particular. Fuck that. There are no sacred texts. I am the Uber-Liberal and undisciplined like a vagrant usurping the halls of governance. I will not be bound by anyones ideologies, there are no proper terms, there are no proper texts.

"The problem is ideas," you said.

And a number of us wanted to know how you would overthrow ideas. I still suggest to you, the kids at Salon or anti-politics, that you can't overthrow ideas, only make them your own.

And for me "Liberal" now means fish eggs with hot sauce in a mochachinno with axle grease. T

Are We Addicted to Rioting?
Authored by: underthepavers on Monday, September 28 2009 @ 09:10 PM UTC
I have to say, when I read your post, I thought there would be an outpouring of agreement and shared sentiment. It's how I have felt for the past few years,and know for certain there are many others. I've been active over the same time frame , and have watched everyone disappear. I have to admit, planning and participation in summits and other "main events" have been about my only contribution to the anarchist movement which I realize is exactly what you're complaining about. I don't think my involvement was ever to be a weekend warrior, or just to get the "unbeatable high", (although that was fun)but rather it was my only connection to a movement that I wanted desperately to contribute to.
I dropped off the map for a little while and returned with the St. Paul RNC. I saw very few familiar faces, and with many of the new faces came a new attitude. Complete disregard for other organizers , (not even just the "liberal" organizers, but other anarchists' like funk the war) and the lack of a basic understanding of anarchism. Of course I'm not including everyone involved, just the crew I ended up running with, as I was flying solo, hoping to hook up with old friends.
So I guess one of the points that I wanted to stress was that these summits do provide a place to plug-in for people who otherwise have a full plate, or live in a place where they are having a hard time because they are only one person, and organizing isn't their strong point, or live 20 miles from the nearest anarchist project whose members arent the most welcoming, due to paranoia or lack of social skills. I'm sure all of this seems like a cop out for not doing the hard work, and sometimes it feels like a cop out, but I'm sure there are others like me who don't really know where to go from here. Others who want to be involved, but feel disconnected from the current movement.

I feel like if anarchists are trying to connect with the working class, they should have a pretty easy time connecting to a working class anarchist. Oh well, feel free to tear me apart.
-brian from cincy, but really ky.
Are We Addicted to Rioting?
Authored by: sweet tea on Tuesday, September 29 2009 @ 02:00 PM UTC
I hear what youre saying here ryan, though it sounds like youre backpeddling a little bit now that more news is getting about how great a lot of pgh really was.

I think your uestion about living wage campaigns is telling. you say " I have heard living wage campaigns among poor workers, of which I have been an organizer with a winning campaign here in Baltimore, called "reformist" and "liberal". Was the 8-hour day liberal? Then why the glorification of the Haymarket martyrs?"

The answer is pretty obvious: YES, those things ARE reformist. YES, they do keep folks working within the liberal discourse of politics. A living wage campaign assumes capitalism, even while it ignores the way capitalism works: the wages go up, but then the rent goes up too, and everybody eventually ends up back where they started. That doesnt mean its worthless, perse, but it certainly doesnt challenge the dominant logic of capital. Nor did the 8 hour work day struggle.

That DOESNT mean those things are not worth doing, necesarrily, but that when we undertake them, we should always be VERY cautious about reifying the way liberalism does politics, its discourse, tactics, etc. A world with a (temporary) "living wage" isnt necessarily a better one, if my landlord realizes he can just charge me 100 dollars more a rent next month. Nor is it the world of work that we, as anticapitalists, desire. Its essentially social democracy. And you can go ask folks in the French banlieus or the workers kidnapping their bosses (hardly part of Politics, eh?) how happy they are with that.

But if a campaign of that nature can strengthen anticapitalist sectors as a whole, and increase the tension between workers and bosses, such as the 8 hour workday organizing did (which also broke out of liberal tactics and discourse, i mean shit, cops died and there were streetbattles , sabotage, and constant work stoppages), then by all means, lets go for it, sign me up. This was not the case in chicago, where insurrectionary and anarchist tendencies played a central role (read the writing of lucy parsons, it was incredible. Her lovesong for dynamite is particularly good.)

My issue is that USUALLY, such campaigns use anarchists as footsoldiers but are rarely actually guided by radical, revolutionary, or insurrectionary thinking. So, for example, the living wage is achieved but peoples faith in politics and the economy become, if anything, stronger, all the while, capitalism uickly figures out how to recoop its losses through other economic avenues such as cost-cutting and rent-raising. Part of this problem is eluded to in the difference between "policy activism" and "power activism" as peter gelderloos calls it in his discussions about antiprison work. I would drop the word activism altogether, let dead dogs die, but the point is the same: do the kind of "victories" achieved by this sort of social democracy result in us being stronger and more powerful, or the State and Capital being more powerful? The uestion is too complicated for the answer to be a foregone conclusion, but it is a uestion "community organizers" need to ask themselves nevertheless. Will this struggle result in further rebellion? Is this rebellion at all? Am i afraid that things might "get out of hand?" Am i afraid of losing control? How will capital recuperate this?

On the subject of pgh, people DID get out of control. And thank god, its about time. May all our community projects and campaigns be just as ungovernable.
Are We Addicted to Rioting?
Authored by: sweet tea on Tuesday, September 29 2009 @ 02:06 PM UTC
sorry, thats supposed to read "this WAS the case in chicago."
Are We Addicted to Rioting?
Authored by: communitycntrl on Tuesday, September 29 2009 @ 06:44 PM UTC
ryan, first of all i want to say thanks for writing this. your article has really got some interesting discussion started, so, bravo!

first, let's not throw out our analysis that institutions shape our lives when it comes looking at ourselves!
i think that summit-style events survive and even seem to grow while community organizing seems to shrink is because of historical forces much greater than merely which we decide to focus on (although part of the perception of shrinking is from lack of self-promotion/media as chuck0 rightly points out).

the real cause is the increase in communications technology, the increasing travel/moving in our society - resulting from increased precarity in work/careers and the re-forming of communities based on cultural similarities (both spatially (think portland, OR) and inter-personally (think furries convention)) - rather than communities based on who is around you and where you happen to be. these factors all contribute to the increasing difficulty of community organizing and the increasing ability to have convergences. the increasing difficulty of community organizing can be seen in the equivalent irrelevancy of liberal and anarchist community organizing, the difficulty in forming unions, etc.... so, it's not just us. and it's not all our fault. in fact, i'd say it's mostly NOT our fault.

we don't live in the same reality as the EZLN or even APPO. we live in a much more non-location-centered world. we live in a world where everything is being de-centralized and de-localized, from production to poverty, making community or neighborhood based organizing much harder to do successfully, but also opening new possibilities for other types of power to be created.

so what do we do when faced with this reality, and with the reality that this trend is continuing and accelerating?

i say let's turn this negative into a positive!
maybe in light of the current reality we should embrace this new way of creating change, and perhaps work to build regional networks that can have regional convergences at different summits, or at no summit at all. we can pick the time and place. we can have regional convergences to fight for local campaigns, fusing the immediate benefits of community organizing to the affected community with the new way of organizing that seems to be less hard in the face of our new reality. i mean, 'networks and netwars' saw this type of action as more of a threat than community organizing, right? and power certainly does, judging by the police responses to our summits!
maybe the regional model can create a de-localized resistance that appears sporadically but fiercely until we have sufficient people to start taking actual territory or holding summit sized actions with only the folks in our town.
i mean, i totally agree with this statement as a way forward and think it's great others see that as a good strategy:
"I love to partake in both, and hopefully in the end abandon community organizing towards creating
strategic social war. Occupy space, take shit over, and then make sure the community wants to defend it."
but i don't know, perhaps even the idea of taking territory should even be re-examined in light of the info/comms/de-spatial revolution? what do others think?

i think everyone pretty much agrees that the community organizing vs summits debate, while it has gone on for years, is a false dichotomy.
i think that people should not label others "liberals" for fighting for some of the same things that liberals fight for (living wage, etc...) because it is missing the point that anarchism is a process, it is a way of relating to each other and the institutions of oppression. what makes anarchists different than liberals, even when we are fighting for the same short term goals, is in HOW anarchists try to reach those goals. we should be using strategy that builds conflict with the state and increases our power to act even after our "reform" is won, and we use tactics that express that their is a conflict with the state and capitalism.
anarchist's community organizing should be envisioned as a way to simultaneously fight for better material conditions (goal), to teach ourselves and others how to organize and act in a non-hierarchical way and to also point out the root causes of the problems we're fighting in order to continue action after winning the "reform" (strategy), and to refuse the dichotomy between legality and illegality and replace it with one of ethical versus unethical (tactics). using this as a checklist for the framework of community organizing should look is a good way not to turn into a liberal. the trick is just to not get caught up in the liberal's version of the HOW.
so if anyone ever calls you a liberal for working on something, remember to tell them it is about the HOW, not about the WHAT of the short-term, concrete goal (which is the type of goal that usually elicits a slur such as "liberal").

but all of this about community organizing is contingent on wanting to swim against the forces of history that are pushing us away from topographically-based organizing and action anyway.....not to say it's impossible...it just seems increasingly difficult. maybe we should stop looking back for examples of how to organize and start looking forward to imagine new ones???

who else has thoughts on how the information revolution should be used to form an understanding of how to act?
Are We Addicted to Rioting?
Authored by: communitycntrl on Tuesday, September 29 2009 @ 07:13 PM UTC
sorry, just wanted to add that if people think regional summits are a good idea, our targets list could change with the current outrage. like at the moment it is about bankers and the financial bailouts, so their could be protests at the Financial Serices Roundtable, the Amer. Bankers Assn, the Financial Services Forum or other banking industry organizations....

and if there were regional convergences at events like this, would the government be able to put the money into militarizing the police forces of every city a regional convergence is held in? nope.
Are We Addicted to Rioting?
Authored by: communitycntrl on Thursday, October 01 2009 @ 01:53 AM UTC
i also wanted to add, just to round out what i'm saying above, that the media is becoming increasingly important when media is instantaneous and we are less reliant on our spacially-local community for information.
i think we have seen this be a lynchpin in lots of struggles and it seems to be of increasing importance. it matters alot WHO controls the media and what is being said.

from the coup attempt in venezuela ginned up by rich media companies to the tea party people, control of the media is used as a central tool to creating mass movements. it is how the APPO/Oaxacans survived and fought for so long, the indy media (diluting corporate control) is instrumental in keeping the EZLN from being slaughtered, if the greeks had gotten hold of some of the mass media i think it could have tipped the scales closer to the tipping point of revolution, and i think if people had gotten control of a TV station in st. paul we could've rallied thousands of liberals in the twin cities to get in the streets to stop the police brutality, protest the RNC, etc...

who controls the media is really critical strategically. and i just don't think indymedia will ever suffice as long as all the major media is controlled by those in power and not those in resistance. the people in resistance need to be able to reach out to the larger non-spatially based communities of similar attributes to get them involved. to show them that this is not the usual protest situation, the functioning of business as usual as represented by the smooth functioning of mass media is no longer occuring. that feeling can't be conveyed through indymedia by its very nature.

controlling media is absolutely critical precisely because of the same reasons i talked about above that are making it harder to do community organizing. the same thing that makes community organizing harder also makes major media more important.
Are We Addicted to Rioting?
Authored by: communitycntrl on Tuesday, October 06 2009 @ 12:24 AM UTC
regarding (regional) summits, choosing who to protest, and our ability to create mass movements, i just wanted to throw in this nice statement from a comment over on a crimethinc.com post about the g20:
"anarchist mobilizations are useful but limit themselves by trying to brand them as specifically anarchist."

this makes an excellent point, that we should be much less concerned about telling everyone we are anarchists when organizing, and more concerned about acting as anarchists while also trying to broaden the appeal/draw of the summit by talking about the specifics of why everyone should be in the streets, and choosing who to protest based on what is currently outraging america (bank bailouts, health care, etc...)

imagine a protest, well publicized, organized by anarchists, against a banking industry trade group or a health insurance industry trade group right now. i think appeal could go far beyond the bounds of our communities, and could really bring to life the masses of angry confused people out there who are mad as hell but don't know how to stop this machine that is grinding us all to bits.
Are We Addicted to Rioting?
Authored by: wwwms on Monday, September 28 2009 @ 09:42 PM UTC
I don't identify as an anarchist. After attending anti-war mobilizations in DC, an IMF protest in DC and the FTAA in Miami, I pretty much decided that the anarchist "movement" wasn't for me. I really appreciate Ryan's critiques and totally agree with them, as someone who was totally excited about anarchism and now is disengaged. Instead, while at the FTAA, I participated in the Root Cause March, which took place before the mass demo. While you (and I, believe me) can critique the groups that put it together and/or the non-profit industrial complex, at the end of the day, the community organizing work they are doing and represented in the march was 100% more powerful to me than any of the anarchist street battles I have been involved in/witnessed. In addition, FNB, Really Really Free Markets and Infoshops feel pretty hollow to me. I'm not in the subculture, not because I feel excluded, but mostly because I'm not interested in a movement based on a subculture. I'm interested in movements based on organizing. Until I see organizing return to the center of anarchism, I really couldn't consider myself an anarchist, as much as I share a lot of the values. I would love to see good organizing work coming from outside the non-profit system. So far those examples are far and few between.

I've seen a presentation by an Irish anarchist who was speaking all about the community organizing work that anarchists are doing in Ireland. I think people who consider themselves anarchists should take some lessons from that work.

Are We Addicted to Rioting?
Authored by: Admin on Monday, September 28 2009 @ 10:45 PM UTC
"I've seen a presentation by an Irish anarchist who was speaking all about the community organizing work that anarchists are doing in Ireland. I think people who consider themselves anarchists should take some lessons from that work."

I think the only lesson U.S. anarchists should take from what Irish anarchists are doing is that Irish anarchists do a much better job *reporting on* and *documenting* the community organizing work they are doing. If you are connected to what U.S. anarchists are doing, you'll know that they are doing all kinds of community organizing. They just aren't good at letting other people, including anarchists, know about what they are doing.

Chuck0
Are We Addicted to Rioting?
Authored by: strongwindsahead on Monday, September 28 2009 @ 10:52 PM UTC
the comments on this post have been largely really helpful. It's nice to see.

I wasn't there, but just had close comrades return. They were excited. Really excited. Some of them have been around a long time and are very realistic about these events and to see them so hopeful was really great.

So, what I think is interesting is that the critiques Ryan put forth on recent protests apply to most of them, but not this one. And it's exactly because G20 did avoid those pitfalls (the local anarchists DID go out and do solid outreach organizing, the protests were organized around solid goals and informed by thoughtful strategies) that the protests were as successful as participants are claiming.

Maybe the next critique is on community organizing because I agree with some of the other comments that much of our community organizing is just as irrelevant (if not more) than our organizing and participation in street actions. Let's take a serious look at how we do that because Ryan is right that it's in those areas that most of our work is being done.

Are We Addicted to Rioting?
Authored by: anarkid on Monday, September 28 2009 @ 10:52 PM UTC
Ryan and everyone else,
I want to thank you for writing this as well, and I agree with one of the earlier commenters that your response post touched me more than the original one, though really they both go together. I am one of the people that strongly agrees with you (of course not 100%, but much more so with your second post). I have three main points that I want to draw out.

1). Anarchists that I know up and down the east coast, especially in North Carolina where I'm at, definitely romanticize street battles with police. I'm one of them. I react much more strongly to anarchists in Greece or the APPO in Oaxaca building barricades and fucking shit up than to a lot of other things in this movement. While this is justified in many ways, I think we need to talk more about how this affects our priorities about what kind of work is important.

2). There are definitely anarchists who participate in militant street actions AND community organizing. In fact, most anarchists I know involved in deeper movement struggles have or do involve themselves in more militant stuff. HOWEVER, most anarchists I know who go to these events are NOT involved in community organizing. While I know you pointed out that this wasn't you're point, since it was brought up I want to address it. MANY anarchists I know (and believe me, I know plenty) are way too focused on organizing counter-events like these summit hopping protests. By counter-events I mean you and your group saying "OH FUCK the G20/National Socialist Movement/RNC is coming and we need to shut it down" rather than saying "damn there's this group of progressive folks of color fighting police brutality and racism, I wonder how I can help them out." TOO OFTEN (not always) these anarchists are not interested in doing the really important community organizing work for exactly the reasons Ryan said-- it's often dismissed as ineffectual liberal crap that is reformist and ineffective. Bringing me to point #3.

3). I think Ryan's strongest point is regarding this false dichotomy so many anarchists create about what is radical enough to participate in. If it's important work that needs doing but could use some more anarchist tendencies (maybe less hierarchy in the organization or a deeper understanding of how the state is rotten to the core) GET IN THERE and have some fucking influence!

Too many anarchists where I live are more interested in organizing one-off protests than participating in important things going on in my City (Greensboro, NC) such as:
-A campaign to raise the minimum wage (like Ryan said)
-Increasing community gardens in the City
-Demanding the dismantling of the racist gang squad of the Police Dept
-Working to keep the Greensboro HIVE community space open
-Supporting the founding of Jobs with Justice this month, and by extension, many of the unions in the area
-Working in any kind of open, accountable, and consistent way with communities of color
-Supporting local Black-Brown unity organizing work to bring Blacks and Latinos together against our racist capitalist system and state
-Commemorating the anniversary of the 1979 Greensboro Massacre where labor organizers were murdered by the KKK, Nazis, and state
-Fighting against the implementation of 287(g) immigration policy giving police the power to act as ICE and deport Latinos (that's the target)
-Building a pirate radio station, indymedia collective, or any real source of alternative information locally
-Repealing anti-free speech laws that require over a month's notice for a permit, political speech in the Center City Park, etc.
-Fighting against the recent announcement that SROs in our public schools will carry tasers
-Mobilizing against the recent Greensboro City Council ban on panhandling in most public places
-Working with the Almighty Latin King & Queen Nation on their local gang peace treaty
-Reviving a local chapter of the IWW

All of these might not be your bag, but some of them should be. Just like we criticize "liberals" for only caring enough to donate cans to homeless shelters or protest Bush, we should hold ourselves accountable for doing more than token actions.

Now let me just clarify, that in almost all of these projects, anarchists are very VERY actively involved. In fact, some are projects started by mostly or entirely anarchists! But too many other anarchists write it off as not radical enough and therefore do not participate entirely. What the fuck is that about? I think Ryan's critiques provide a lot of insight into exactly what it's about.

There's a very holier-than-thou attitude about who's 'really' down for the struggle coming from some people (nationally and locally) that only places importance on militancy and pats itself on the back for being really 'good' at security culture instead of being really good at building a more broadly based liberation struggle. All too often it turns out the people who are ACTUALLY down for the struggle are not the people who call themselves anarchists, but the folks who are less concerned with titles and more concerned with action. But it doesn't have to be that way. Anarchists, let's get this shit done!
Are We Addicted to Rioting?
Authored by: communitycntrl on Wednesday, September 30 2009 @ 04:07 PM UTC
this post is fucking awesome. seriously. it's great, even though in a post a talk about how community organizing may be becoming increasingly difficult, i still love this post.

way to go.
Are We Addicted to Rioting?
Authored by: dognamedsnuggles on Tuesday, September 29 2009 @ 02:15 AM UTC
Talking from the point of view having not attended the G20...

What frustrates me most is that if you look at any mainstream media they always mention the "anarchists." Why not mention the labor unions or the Tibetans, etc? Because ONLY mentioning "anarchists" makes it look as though they are a lone group with no support. Ryan says that we (anarchists) have convinced ourselves that we are the movement, period, but that's really actually what the media has to say about us as well, (which is a huge fuck you to the other groups that showed up.) I think how fucking radical some anarchists think of themselves as being is a lie they tell themselves, but it's important to note that the media encourages this view, and that it has a divide and conquering effect on the movement as a whole. You can choose to believe the media and feel good about yourself for thinking anarchists with black masks are the only ones radical enough to dislike the G20, but not only is that wrong, but you're now helping to silence other movements. Solidarity!

Anyone who thinks the kinds of protests you see on TV are directly contributing to the demise of Government is a fool. (Therefore, I don't see rolling dumpsters down the street as direct action, unless the cops are your target, as opposed to the G20, government or capitalism.)

I really don't believe militant protests are automatically direct action. Direct action IS effective. When I think direct action I think something that completes a goal, without asking for permission.

I think Ryan makes a good point to say that we should be questioning our goals, and whether our tactics are effectively achieving those goals.

A few random thoughts:

To do something over and over again and expect different results is insanity.

As someone who is in their early 20's and who has had a radical train of thought most of my teenage and adult life, but who is also relatively new to being politically active, (certain parts of) our movement are really ageist. Some circles I hang out in have a healthy diversity of ages. Others I hang out in that should be more inclusive are dominated by youth. What systems are in place to convey history and to make sure we don't repeat dumb mistakes?

Some factions of anarchists are more racist and sexist than others, but you already knew that right?

Thoughts? What do you all think?
Are We Addicted to Rioting?
Authored by: dognamedsnuggles on Tuesday, September 29 2009 @ 02:31 AM UTC
Also one last thought I forgot to add.

There's a lot of talk as if protests and organizing are mutually exclusive. I don't think that's true. My post might imply that protests and direct action are mutually exclusive. I don't think that's true either. Let me complete the triangle and say that direct action and organizing are not mutually exclusive.

Too often we separate these things from each other so we can criticize liberals for only doing protest or not doing direct action and once again feel really good about ourselves for being radical.
Are We Addicted to Rioting?
Authored by: wcstrong on Tuesday, September 29 2009 @ 12:47 PM UTC
I think Ryan's criticism here is right on. I do not think it was fair for people to slate it as a criticism of Pittsburgh, however. I was in Pitt this past friday with 30+ people from CT, many of them new folks, and it was energizing to me, but we have to be realistic. The numbers in Pitt were pitiful in terms of mass demonstrations - though this is less of an issue considering that it was during the week and in Pittsburgh which is less accessible than other cities. I would hardly call it a true mass action - even though these numbers pass as it these days - but 10k out of 300million is a less than one-thousandth of a percent of the population. How can this be mass? how can we expect serious change if we cant even get 1 percent of people in the streets?

We drove 10 hours from CT to get there, a long trip that left me so tired that I slept for almost an entire day afterwards, but that was hardly the greatest exertion of my energies. I was most tired out by the weeks of solid organizing work that we did to build it. We need to build on this to reach the levels where we become a serious threat. Being attacked by cops because of having a strategy of high militance is one thing, but facing the same presence because of our numbers is quite another. I am not criticizing the organizing work that POG did leading up to the demos, but I think Ryan brings up an excellent point about strategy and relating to a larger movement. If those militant actions were supported by not just thousands, but MILLIONS of people thier character would be entirely different. We live in a country of over 300 million people and if we dont have the numbers that can easily challenge and debunk the lies of capital and its media, we have to think more about militant action. We need to figure out how to grow a mass movement that builds these ties so much so that militant actions have more meaning. Blocking a street with a dumpster or some of the tactics ryan criticizes here are useless if they can easily be passed onto the mass of people and be used to paint us as the ultimate evil. These tactics have worked in the past (I am thinking specificly of 19th century railroad strikes) but they succeeded with mass support because the actions focused first on mass organizing.

My experience in the modern anarchist very much echos that of ryan's and I had a similar falling out. I think that we all need to critically think about strategy here, and if you are doing serious work like POG, you don't have to stand against ryan's criticism painting it as anti-pittsburgh. Lets be honest with each other and be willing to listen to the criticisms before we shoot off the handle with self defense statements. Criticism means that people's feelings will get hurt, but we need to be able to sacrifice our feelings if we are to have meaningful discussion. I think that there are certainly some reactionary comments here that are focused on self defense rather than seeing ryan's criticism for what it is - a commentary on the modern anarchist movement. In my experiences I have seen very much the same things - over glorification of events / demonstrations which eventually dissappear into historical memory because they were not soundly based in mass struggle. If you want militancy to work to build a movement and make change it has to be in this framework. I read a great article about this recently which quoted a song from The Coup which included a line "but bring the people with you - thats the protocol" and this needs to be the focus. We can't win with groups of committed anarchists or other leftists with very sharp political lines. Movements dont win with lines, they win with people. Now lets build off of Pittsburgh and get the people in the streets.
Are We Addicted to Rioting?
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, September 29 2009 @ 01:00 PM UTC
The wild G20 protest in Pittsburgh a few days ago was the most successful mass action by US anarchists in at least a decade. A short email like this could not fully describe what took place. What was probably the largest and most courageous black bloc in US history gathered at Arsenal Park in Pittsburgh on September 24th and went on a rampage. Later that night the equally courageous Bash Back march came unleashed on a gentrified business district. The 9/24 actions were like something out of Greece. Businesses suffered $50,000 worth of property damage. The government spent $18 million on G20 security and sent 2,500 National Guard troops and 4,000 police to Pittsburgh. $50 million was spent on security for the 2008 RNC. The state's G20 security operation in Pittsburgh failed completely. Less than 30 arrests were made on 9/24. The low number of arrests at the G20 in Pittsburgh sharply contrasted with the high number of arrests at previous mass actions like the 2008 RNC protest, the Miami FTAA protest in 2003 and the Seattle WTO protest in 1999. This is a sign that America's massive police state is starting to collapse under its own weight as it runs out of resources like oil and money. The police used sonic weapons for the first time in the US. The police also used tear gas, rubber bullets and smoke bombs to stop the rioting that lasted for eight hours. The following night the police took out their frustration on local college students who were peacefully gathered and arrested about a hundred of them. The ten year anniversary of the Battle of Seattle is two months away and finally we have something similar to show for it. The Battle of Pittsburgh that took place last week rivals the 1999 Battle of Seattle and was definitely the largest and most successful anarchist mobilization here since then. The Pittsburgh G20 protest is a turning point for the US anarchist movement, one that points upward to revolution.




Are We Addicted to Rioting?
Authored by: communitycntrl on Tuesday, September 29 2009 @ 05:23 PM UTC
"America's massive police state is starting to collapse under its own weight as it runs out of resources like oil and money."

hahaha. i think this is maybe askew. just a little. ha.
but really, PGH turned out really well and i was excited to see it.

i think it shows that as much as alot of us thought that the convergence/summit model was getting old and ineffective in the post-WTO years, it is still pretty effective.

the idea that 4,000 cops were chasing around MAYBE 1,000 people and couldn't contain or stop them from getting wild is a testament to the power of autonomous actions, decentralized actions, and the affinity group model.
Am I addicted to pie eating?
Authored by: lettersjournal on Tuesday, September 29 2009 @ 03:49 PM UTC
The union, the riot, the union, the riot. Am I torn? I am not torn. I do not want any of this. Every option is worse than the last, especially in the Fall, the time of hand picked apples and homemade crusts, fine cinnamon and brown sugar. I am not drawn to the black masks of the bloc or the yellow banners of the union. I am drawn to the kitchen, to the home, the time and place of rest.

The culpability of the insurrectionist or the union organizer lies in more than the structural distortion of communication, but isn't that distortion enough? There is not a time for everything. You are the frantic to my torpid. I long for warmth and sweetness and the words and breathing as I wait for my creation to cool. Come in for a while, friend. Perhaps we can find something else to do that won't leave so many bruises, so much worry and lack of sleep.

Ah! The timer rings; without a mask, I put on my oven mitts.
Am I addicted to pie eating?
Authored by: HPWombat on Tuesday, September 29 2009 @ 07:48 PM UTC
Ah ah ah! I burn my tongue on your hot torpid pie! I drop crumbs on the ground, only to slip and break my neck. Life is far too interesting to burn my tongue on apple pie.

---
embrace the dork side
You pie-eating motherfucker
Authored by: alta fuoco on Thursday, October 01 2009 @ 01:41 AM UTC
Dude, you're not 56 years old, and this is not Nottinghamsire circa 1644.

It's cool you like pie, and the seasons and stuff, but what the hell has the salon done to you? Have you been talking to that Andy guy again!? He's a bad influence on you! Come on, Join the darkside. We live in a fucked up fantasy world--we're the archangels of history and stuff. I heard you loved that shit at the Crimethinc gathering.

Srsly though, we're going to kidnap you and send you to a fucking summit riot in Europe. Don't make too many plans in the next years.
Are We Addicted to Rioting?
Authored by: redsdisease on Thursday, October 01 2009 @ 03:40 AM UTC
It seems clear that the anarchist movement has been stuck in something of a rut since the end of the global justice movement. It also seems clear that anarchists have to organize locally to build deeper, broader roots in our communities. However, it can be difficult for many who are committed to revolution and anti-capitalism to participate in groups that don't really seem to get us any closer to these goals. So, the question then might be: in what ways can we participate in community organizing that will allow us to go beyond reformist goals and contribute towards a revolutionary movement?
Are We Addicted to Rioting?
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, October 01 2009 @ 04:30 PM UTC
Community organizing is an abused term. It can mean many different things. Obama was a community organizer, lets not imitate the president.
Are We Addicted to Rioting?
Authored by: veranasi on Friday, October 02 2009 @ 11:29 AM UTC
Not to mention, what the hell is sharing practices within a commune, but community organizing? This is a dumb argument. Both sides are echoing each other and pretending they are not the same. This fight is really about personalities who have the most dominant voice and power. This is not about the future of anarchy or whatever. We need to lock up these two wings of the same faction in a room with with walls scrawled "SHUT THE FUCK UP!" and wait for them to stop talking over one another. This is like a high school prom court election, it's as if the biggest fit thrown wins the title.
Are We Addicted to Rioting?
Authored by: urbanfarmer on Wednesday, October 21 2009 @ 06:37 PM UTC
Ryan, I want to thank you for saying what needs to be said. I just heard you speak on Against the Grain on KPFA radio and I’m so glad I happened to hear you. It is totally affirming to hear your words.

It is absolutely imperative for people who want to achieve real aims to begin to question the role of self-aggrandizement, and unjustified self-congratulatory attitudes in leftist movements. When I was working as a food-justice activist I always said, “I’ve got hobbies I could be pursuing. I really like to knit but I have no time for that. If I’m going to work this hard, I want to make sure there are tangible, positive outcomes to my work.” I went to great lengths to evaluate whether what we were doing just sounded cool or was really helping solve problems. Why shouldn’t protest organizers be asked to do the same? Lives are on the line. And my life was one that was severely impacted by questionable tactical decisions.

I was seriously injured at an anti-Iraq war picket at the Oakland, CA docks in 2003. The Oakland police, in league with the California Anti Terrorism Information Center (funded by the feds) decided to categorize us—non-violent protestors—as terrorists, giving a pretext to brutally attack us with “less lethal” weapons (incorrectly used by the way). Over 50 people were shot and injured.

Randomly, I had the most severe injury in the group and required two surgeries including a skin graft, as well as years of physical therapy to reduce physical pain and psychological problems. I received a settlement from the City of Oakland and the money has helped me pay for my seemingly endless doctor and therapist appointments and difficulties working, but I have spent the last six years trying to put my life back together and am still working on it.

Let me say that I take full responsibility for my participation in the protest and realize there are never any guarantees. However, I have come to view the tactics as severely misguided. I believe those in leadership have continued to view our action as a success and have never questioned or admitted to questioning their decisions in light of the fallout. They see it as one more battle in the war and fail to realize that they could have actually had a positive impact on the problem of the war if they had been willing to think critically.

The only contact I had with people in leadership in the movement after my injury was a phone call as I lay immobilized in pain to ask me to come be a figurehead at a follow-up protest. No acknowledgement that my life had stopped dead in its tracks, that I couldn’t work, that I had no money, that I was having nightmares of police officers raising their rifles and shooting me, etc. Just, “Come be a martyr for the cause”. A friend organized a benefit for me, and many rank and file folks supported me, but people in leadership ignored me unless they needed something from me.

My critique of the action the day I was attacked is not a critique of the specific decisions of the group particularly, but of the concepts behind the tactics in general. Protest of that kind, without a specific goal or demand, but only to gain attention for an issue, made sense in the 60s when a less media-jaded populace was indeed shocked into action.

As a strategy to end the war in Iraq, however, this tactic mostly resulted in pushing our movement further to the fringe. Average citizens were not inspired and attracted to our movement when they saw what we did. My story briefly made me a poster child in the left-wing media around the world for the righteousness of our cause, when our action had really been a poorly planned failure. So what was the point other than to boost egos and street cred and make people feel like they were cool freedom fighters, fighting “the man”? Can you believe that people in our movement actually feel good in a certain way when people are brutally attacked? It’s true. It serves as a justification after the fact. I’m sorry to sound so jaded myself, but you see, I actually did pay seriously for the movements’ tactical errors.

While I think what the Oakland police did was heinous and I’m proud that our legal actions changed the crowd control policies of the city, I resented being asked by the leaders of the movement to use my personal suffering to inspire others. What happened to me WAS NOT WORTH IT and achieved nothing with regards to our anti-war goals. Guess what. Decision makers and people with power don’t read Indy Bay except to snoop! Now this truly unendurable reality of my life was supposed to give me higher status as an activist? I find this concept totally offensive. I personally believe that higher status should be associated with achieving aims, not creating martyrs.

To back up, years before deciding to go to the protest that day, I had consciously decided that I would address the injustices of the world through positive, constructive means—through building the world I wanted—not through fighting. This was a personal choice based on the belief that directly attacking the powers that perpetuate injustice would only result in counter attack (and they’ve got bigger guns), while stealthily building good things under the radar could possibly go unnoticed and succeed. Don’t get me wrong. Protest and radical action plays a part in making the world better, but I didn’t feel it would work as a primary strategy in our times.

Along with others in my community, I had created a network of organic urban farms providing healthy food in a low-income neighborhood with no grocery stores. Ironically, I actually lived in the neighborhood directly adjacent to the Oakland docks and was probably in a much better position to imagine what the Oakland police would do to us than other people at the protest. I had seen them roughing up mostly people color in my neighborhood for years. The mostly white, middle class protesters at the Oakland docks probably had no idea that the behavior of the police towards us was quite normal for them, just directed at a different target.

I went to the protest out of a deep feeling of sadness and horror over the war, and not finding any other venues to express my feelings I overrode my rule not to participate in negative action. The results were catastrophic for my life.

I won’t go into details about what happened in the hospital, except to say that the pain I endured and the fact of being violently attacked and almost loosing my leg resulted in a long struggle with Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. Prior to this event I considered myself a very tough person. I was living and thriving in a very rough neighborhood, working extremely hard physically, etc. I would often characterize myself jokingly as a mule. The point is, I was far from being a “sensitive” person and had no illusions about violence in the world.

Unfortunately, the effects of certain kinds of trauma are physiological and unavoidable. Recently, when a former burn-unit nurse told she had a patient who had also been in the Holocaust and told her he’d rather be back there than dealing with his pain, I finally understood why I had such a severe case of PTSD (like burn victims, I had a skin graft). For those who haven’t experienced full-blown panic attacks for years on end as I have, there’s really nothing I can say except I hope you never do. The symptoms of PTSD really can’t be described, but they are debilitating.

While prior to my injury I was a “professional” activist, devoting 50-60 hours per week to contributing positively to my community, after my injury, I was really stuck, trying to continue what I had started while dealing with my physical and psychological problems.

Six years and thousands of dollars in therapy bills later, I have completely changed my life. To keep my panic attacks at bay I’ve found I need to live in peaceful conditions, work little, rest a lot and surround myself with beauty. Unfortunately, yes, I take medications, something I didn’t “believe in” before. For a number of years I couldn’t read the newspaper or watch movies (most have traumatic scenes) without crying hysterically. I can no longer be around other people living in traumatic conditions. It’s like my cup of pain got filled up and I can’t take any more.

I am on a path of healing and I do have hope that I will recover, but I wonder if my basic sense of safety in my own mind will never be restored. And in response to those who may say, “She knew what she was getting into, why is she griping?”, I don’t actually feel sorry for myself. I chose to go that day and many good things have resulted, especially increased empathy towards those living with trauma.

The thing is, I am the one who has to deal with my situation. I have to deal with it and I don’t feel that what happened to me (and others who were shot) was the least bit productive or affected the trajectory of the war. When I run into the “leadership” of our group I see that they still feel that what happened was a success in spite of the lack of any tangible positive results and many tangible negative results. I still see that they think they know what’s best. How can you learn to be more effective with such an attitude? It’s a shame.

So you see why, for me personally, your words and your courage to speak up about the dark side of our movement are such a balm. As you said on the radio, we no longer need to use alienating words like anarchist, socialist or ist of any kind. Our actions to stand up for our values should speak for themselves. If we all operated this way we might find the common ground that will be necessary for a true cultural and political sea change. Thanks for being brave enough to write what you wrote.
Are We Addicted to Rioting?
Authored by: communitycntrl on Friday, October 23 2009 @ 02:16 PM UTC
great comment, thanks! especially the last part. very wise words.

i am glad you no longer think you have to be some professional activist "mule." living good lives comes first. whoever convinced you that was a good idea in the first place was an idiot.

if this was an anarchist-organized protest though, i don't think you can blame the "leaders" if there were any, nor give them the power to define whether it was a success or not. obviously it was not a success for you. if it was for them, it was for them, but they probably don't understand what you've been through and that's why they still see it as a success.

bad things happen to those who try to fight back, or even those who try to do constructive things and then defend them from attack (because capitalism is always trying to crush or re-couperate them).

it sounds like a terribly journey you've been through, and my heart goes out to you! keep ya head up!