Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth

Welcome to Infoshop News
Tuesday, February 09 2010 @ 05:40 PM UTC

CrimethInc.: Towards a Collective Security Culture



For as long as anyone can remember, the FBI has infiltrated radical communities in hopes of framing people on criminal charges. This has intensified in anarchist circles over the past few years. A handful of unfortunates now languish in prison, serving up to decades for actions they never carried out and probably would never have even considered were it not for the efforts of agents provocateurs. How does the government choose who to target? What factors put people at risk? Most importantly, what can we do to protect ourselves and each other?

This is required reading for anyone going to the impending Earth First! Rendezvous in Oregon, the CrimethInc. convergence in Pittsburgh July 20-26, or, for that matter, any other radical gathering or protest. We’ve also added a guide to security culture to the crimethinc.com online library, which we hope everyone will read as well.

Cold-Blooded Bounty Hunters

Perhaps, gentle reader, you’ve never been part of a community targeted by the US government. Picture undercover agents attending your events with the intention of setting people up to be framed for illegal activity. Most of your friends and family would have the sense to keep themselves out of trouble, of course—but can you be absolutely sure everyone would?

What if someone fell in love with the agent and was desperate to impress him or her, and the agent took advantage of this? Every community has people in it who may sometimes be gullible or vulnerable, who may not display the best judgment at all times. And what if the agent provocateur is a person everyone trusts and looks up to? Government agents aren’t always outsiders—often, the FBI recruits or blackmails long-time participants, such as Brandon Darby and Frank Ambrose. Don’t underestimate these people; they’re cold-blooded bounty hunters ready to do whatever it takes to earn their paychecks, guided by experts with millions and millions of dollars of funding.

Perhaps you’re still saying to yourself “It would never happen—all of us are law-abiding citizens.” Sure you are, every last one of you. The US has 2.3 million people in prison, and over 5 million more on probation and parole—if there isn’t a single person in your whole community who has ever broken the law, you’re exceptional, and probably exceptionally privileged. Anyway, it doesn’t matter—your unfortunate friend or neighbor doesn’t even have to do anything illegal to get framed by the government. They just have to end up in a situation in which it’s possible to make it appear that they could have been considering doing something illegal.

Often the evidence is so tenuous that it takes the government multiple attempts to obtain a conviction. In an entrapment case resulting from the mobilization against the 2008 Republican National Convention, defendant David McKay received a hung jury at trial, only to be coerced into pleading guilty afterwards behind closed doors. In another recent entrapment case, it took two hung juries before a third jury finally convicted some of the defendants—prompting a law professor quoted by the New York Times to say, “It goes to show that if you try it enough times, you’ll eventually find a jury that will convict on very little evidence.”

Muslims and people who care about the environment are at the top of the list for operations like this; opponents of unaccountable authority are close behind. And here we arrive at the one significant difference between “law-abiding” white middle America and at least some of the communities currently targeted by the FBI: the latter are critical of the government. Who can blame them, considering?

How This Affects Us

There have been two instances in which people who attended a CrimethInc. convergence have been entrapped. Eric McDavid, Zachary Jenson, and Lauren Weiner met each other and an informant by the name of “Anna” at the 2004 and 2005 convergences, among other events. Anna drove them across the country, rented them a wiretapped cabin, bought bomb-making materials, and took advantage of McDavid’s attraction to her to pressure the group into discussions that resulted in McDavid’s conviction on conspiracy charges. Afterwards, Elle Magazine quoted regretful jurors as saying “the FBI was an embarrassment” and “I hope he gets a new trial.” In 2008, Matthew DePalma attended a CrimethInc. convergence in Wisconsin, at which he was approached by Andrew Darst, a federal infiltrator posing as a member of the RNC Welcoming Committee. Darst persuaded DePalma to assist him in manufacturing explosives, recorded conversations with him in a wired apartment, and drove him around to do research and purchase supplies. DePalma was indicted on felony charges [PDF, 3.4 MB] for possession of “unregistered firearms,” and eventually pleaded guilty.

Besides these two cases, not one of the hundreds upon hundreds of people who have attended CrimethInc. convergences has been convicted of anything having to do with bombs or Molotov cocktails. These infiltrators sure are precise! Apparently, they can show up in a chaotic space filled with hundreds of people who don’t know each other, immediately identify the most dangerous extremists, and insinuate themselves into their closest confidence—all in a very short time. Next thing you know, the snitches are saving the day, narrowly rescuing ordinary citizens from terrorist attacks—which the criminals would have been about to carry out anyway, even if the agents provocateurs hadn’t befriended them, talked them into crazy schemes, and supplied them with all sorts of incriminating materials.

If you’re gullible enough to believe that version of the story, you’re a perfect target for government entrapment yourself. It seems much more likely that these agents provocateurs pick on the most vulnerable people they can find: the lonely, the naïve, the impressionable, the mentally or emotionally unstable, people who lack close friendships or life experience. This is easier than messing with shrewd, well-connected organizers. The point is not so much to catch the people organizing resistance to the government—charges of Conspiracy to Riot in Furtherance of Jaywalking are just not that impressive—so much as to discredit resistance movements by framing somebody, anybody, as a Dangerous Terrorist. If that means destroying the life of a person who never would have actually harmed anyone, who cares—honest, compassionate people don’t become snitches in the first place.

None of this is intended to blame or insult those who are entrapped. We all have moments of weakness. The guilt lies on those who take advantage of others’ weakness for their own gain.

Photos of various snitches-

How We Defend Ourselves

Why go on meeting publicly, if the government sees this as an opportunity to entrap us? Wouldn’t it be safer to shift to informal networks or small underground cells?

The government would like nothing better than for us to retreat to private scenes and cliques, so there are fewer opportunities for unconnected individuals to get involved. It is to our oppressors’ advantage for small numbers of radicals to escalate to more militant tactics while losing connection to a social base; this makes direct action less likely to spread, while rendering it easier to justify repression. It might be harder for the government to track down clandestine groups at first, but you can bet they’ll set their minds to doing so with a vengeance; Operation Backfire is proof that closed, high-security structures are also not impenetrable.

The most important thing for us to be doing is not secretively carrying out military strikes against the State, but generalizing whatever ideas, skills, and momentum we can. To that end, we desperately need public, participatory activities offering points of entry for new people and opportunities for existing groups to connect.

Right now, there’s no reason to believe that everyone with “RADICAL” stamped on their FBI file is about to be rounded up and sent to camps. It seems that the current government policy is to collect as much intelligence as possible on radicals, target high-visibility organizers with conspiracy charges when there is a good chance of convicting them, and entrap whichever random victims are easiest to frame. That means rank-and-file participation in radical movements and communities is still relatively low-risk, so long as you use your head.

Let’s review what that entails:

Never undertake or discuss illegal activity with people you haven’t known and trusted for a long time. Don’t trust people just because other people trust them or because they are in influential positions. Don’t let others talk you into tactics you’re not comfortable with or ready for. Be aware that anything you say may come back to haunt you, even if you don’t mean it. Always listen to your instincts; if someone seems pushy or too eager to help you with something, take some time to think about the situation. Reflect on the motivations of those around you—do they make sense? Get to know your comrades’ families and friends.

It’s also useful to study the behavior of informants. An interesting analysis of the communications of the agent provocateur in the Eric McDavid case is available here.

All this is fairly common sense among seasoned radicals, but perhaps we can go a step further. Thus far, activists and anarchists have thought of security largely in personal terms—as a way for individuals to avoid incriminating themselves and their friends. The forms of “security culture” common in our communities have reflected this individualism. Yet even if 99 out of 100 anarchists are able to avoid getting framed, when agents provocateurs manage to entrap the 100th one we still end up all paying the price—losing friends, spending years working on prisoner support, and ceding the government yet another opportunity to demonize us in the media.

We need to evolve a new security culture that can protect others as well, including vulnerable and marginal participants in radical spaces who may be particularly appetizing targets to federal bounty hunters. In addition to looking out for yourself, keep an eye on others who may put themselves at risk.

For example, imagine that you attend a presentation about a direct action mobilization, and one person in the audience keeps asking crazy questions and demanding that people escalate their tactics. It’s possible that this person is a cop; it’s also possible that he’s not a cop, but a hothead that might make a very attractive target for cops. Such individuals are typically shunned, which only makes them more vulnerable to agents provocateurs: “Screw these squares—stick with me and we’ll really make something happen!” Someone who has nothing to lose should approach this person in a low-stress environment and emphasize the importance of proper security culture, describing the risks that one exposes himself and others to by speaking so carelessly and urging him to be cautious about trusting anyone who solicits his participation in illegal activity. A ten-minute conversation like this might save years of heartache and prisoner support later on.

A great deal of thinking remains to be done on this subject. How do we look out for each other without prying into each other’s business or stepping on each other’s toes? Are there other ways we can protect against the machinations of infiltrators and informants? We don’t know the answers to these questions yet; we’re asking you to think them through with us. The sooner we can develop a collective security culture that prevents federal agents from framing naïve young people, the sooner we’ll be able to build a durable, visible struggle against oppression.

Further Reading

What is Security Culture

The Electronic Frontier Foundation on Surveillance Self-Defense

General Security Culture Guide: online version and zine version [PDF]

Resisting Grand Juries

Additional Links

Security Culture Puppet Show

Trackback

Trackback URL for this entry: http://news.infoshop.org/trackback.php?id=20090625165942755

No trackback comments for this entry.
CrimethInc.: Towards a Collective Security Culture | 29 comments | Create New Account
The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.
further thoughts on this
Authored by: biofilo on Friday, June 26 2009 @ 12:08 AM UTC
from a comrade:

"A few weeks ago when the NPR program This American Life came out with its program regarding Brandon Darby (and his entrapment of David McKay and Bradley Crowder) I started thinking about this issue a lot. Here’s a couple of thoughts that came to mind:

1) If everyone already knew darby was a borderline authoritarian misogynist asshole (I met the man one time, and this was the first thing I was told about him) why was he still allowed to participate in our circles? Are there problems with our culture (not just security culture) that allow Brandon Darbies to exist. Obviously, some would say that he should have been excluded from the social scene entirely for his past behaviour. This may be true, but what I’m mostly interested in, is what would have caused folks to continue including him. The radio program talked about darby having a “get shit done” attitude. I have sympathies toward this, and I know others do to. Honestly, the bureaucracy can be so much sometimes one just wants to step out of the community to do what needs to be done.

I’m reminded of working on a community center project in a city I used to live in. There were so many meetings happening in which no one was being held accountable to the decisions made that finally a few friends and I decided to stop attending. Instead, whenever there was a meeting we went and worked in the garden. At the time I thought that this was an appropriate course of action, and it certainly produced more results. In retrospect though, it really represented the failure of our consensus process. We need to have social systems and decision making processes that allow us to make reasonable decisions in a timely manner and actually act upon them. It should be seen as a failure if the only folks able to get stuff done are those that abrogate the system and make unilateral (or authoritarian) decisions. Of course this is not to say that we shouldn’t all retain the ability to act on our own accord, but a group *should* be able to do much more than any individual. And most importantly it should be able to make much *better* decisions. Isn’t that supposed to be the point?

2) What attracted these young men to get in with Brandon in the first place? In the radio program they stated that Brandon had these activist
credentials which gave them credibility. In some ways it made me think that maybe the rest of the community wasn’t as inviting to them. I don’t
know for sure that this was true in the case of Crowder and McKay, but sometimes what passes as security culture borders on elitism. If the broader community excludes new comers (for example because they say stupid dangerous things) then it seems that they could be pushed to sketchier situations; like entering into an abusive authoritarian relationship with an FBI informant."
CrimethInc.: Towards a Collective Security Culture
Authored by: engine summer on Friday, June 26 2009 @ 01:23 AM UTC
its really amazing to me how lax some folks STILL are about this.

get it through your head people. be INTENTIONAL about how you SHARE INFORMATION. if not you are sharing too much and we dont need to share with pigs. it's not just a question of anna's and eric's. we leave a lot of info lying around in the open, even if it points directly to crime or not it could be very useful to those making maps of our terrain. we would do best to create an impenetrable terra incognita nova.

i understand the need to celebrate our little victories, and to not be clandestine and elitist, but some people brag and run their mouths about shit and its just ridiculous. i for one know WAY more than i ought to, and i dont like it. it makes me a liability. i would never snitch, but do these people know that?

frealz yall best get hip to becoming-whatever.

CrimethInc.: Towards a Collective Security Culture
Authored by: exworker on Friday, June 26 2009 @ 05:58 PM UTC
engine summer: i understand the point you are making, and agree with you that we need to keep a better sense of security when discussing, planning or talking about actions or other things we are involved in. however, i think it's important to also make sure we are not alienating or speculating as to someone's legit-ness--and realize that as long as we personally practice good security culture, we don't have to worry about who is who. if someone says something out of line, we need to interact with them as if they are putting themselves in jeopardy--not immediately jump on them for being "sketchy". i realize you weren't implying that, but it's something that is worth mentioning because i've been to a lot of convergences and similar events where this happens a lot.

there are too many arrogant know-it-all's who act hardcore and alienate people who are new to things or are simply curious. the question is, how can we effectively create good security culture without alienating and pushing new, inexperienced people out?

one last point. for someone so adamantly against people keeping their mouths shut, i would say that this line you wrote--"i for one know WAY more than i ought to, and i dont like it. it makes me a liability"--probably wasn't necessary for the same reasons, and does more to let us know you're involvement than it does prove a point. just sayin.

lets really work to keep new, young and inexperienced people involved when we're coming up with solutions to problems like this.
CrimethInc.: Towards a Collective Security Culture
Authored by: engine summer on Friday, June 26 2009 @ 08:09 PM UTC
perhaps the thing about "liability" was a poor choice of words. potential liability, more like. basically, i was trying to re-iterate my first line. altho there are other reasons it bothers me, one of which being that as you said, precisely, it's not a question of hardcore-ness but of common sense. i think people have every right to ask how legit other people are and every reason to be mindful of what theyre saying or not saying and who theyre saying it in front of. security culture is practiced by all successful outlaws. our desire to be an outward-reaching movement or tendency shouldn't blind us to that.
CrimethInc.: Towards a Collective Security Culture
Authored by: exworker on Friday, June 26 2009 @ 08:37 PM UTC
i see your point. but again, i think by using the language you are--implying you are either an "outlaw" or nothing--creates a false dichotomy that does more to hurt our efforts than anything. it's just that type of aggressive, alienating language that works to prevent healthy growth in some circles. it's not alienating to all, of course. and i'm not trying to invalidate your points at all--i just think we need to learn when it's appropriate to use specific verbiage and language, and when we need to speak more invitingly--while still using caution.

again, as long as you are using smart security culture you have little to worry about. if someone says something that makes others uncomfortable, simply explain the problem and potential vulnerable position they're putting themselves in. anything else works to divide us, which is exactly why infiltration and surveillance is effective.
CrimethInc.: Towards a Collective Security Culture
Authored by: engine summer on Saturday, June 27 2009 @ 02:44 AM UTC
seriously, what is your damage? where did i "imply" that "you are either an 'outlaw' or nothing"? and what is "alienating" about aggression? since i am an anarchist i believe that some kind of resistance, and therefore counter-aggression, is natural to all beings. this is what we mean by social war. as far as my reference to outlaws, i'm speaking of engaging in this war intelligently - ie, as one who is aware of their enemy and their enemy's perspective, as one who doesnt intend, ultimately, to be integrated. what's un-"inviting" and "alienating" about that?

fuck agamben and foucault... more anarchists need to read sun tzu and machiavelli to get this really basic shit.

and: however i handled those security breaches in the specific situations isn't for you to judge or assume. and i dont think that if i didnt handle it precisely your way, that i facilitate "infiltration and surveillance".
CrimethInc.: Towards a Collective Security Culture
Authored by: exworker on Saturday, June 27 2009 @ 09:29 AM UTC
my "damage" is that this piece is about security culture, not who's more radical. many of the problems that stem from poor security culture are because of the way we tend to approach people who say something inappropriate--and further, how we treat them overall which could lead to them feeling uncomfortable and saying things they aren't aware are not okay.

i wasn't judging you at all--on the contrary, i was merely using this space to address the fact that in our circles we tend to alienate people who might not already share our culture and beliefs--music, way of dress, politics, personalities, etc. i took the opportunity to bring it up specifically in response to your comments because they came off, to me, as a little over the top and aggressive--something that i've seen all too often affect communities negatively.

example: i'll be attending the CrimethInc. convergence this year. i'll be there with a friend who is new to this lifestyle and these ideas, and who is really excited to participate in something like this. i fear she might be uncomfortable because she doesn't dress "punk" or know the verbiage everyone is throwing around. there are a lot of attitudes, preconceptions, speculations and projections going on at these events and if we are to gain momentum, we need to be aware of this. of course, making others feel comfortable is also of key importance when hoping for good security culture.

again, not directly related to what you said perhaps. maybe you see my point now?

CrimethInc.: Towards a Collective Security Culture
Authored by: engine summer on Saturday, June 27 2009 @ 06:40 PM UTC
yeah it sort of seemed like you were trying to relate it to what i said and to me being "aggressive". we are definitely talking about 2 completely different things and it did seem you were singling me out as representative of what you were talking about.

im well aware that "sec culture" can be deployed in a hierarchalizing fashion. this doesnt negate my comments about bad security culture. anyway, i even have a topical horror story about the other end of the spectrum: i know a female person from the bay who was widely accused of being a snitch. it's complete bullshit; the rumor was started by this scummy quasi political squatter dude because she wouldnt sleep with him, it got spread all around because of the kids he was in with. HELLA FUCKED.
CrimethInc.: Towards a Collective Security Culture
Authored by: Libertad450 on Friday, June 26 2009 @ 02:19 PM UTC
Hello,

On a similiar note, if anyone is interested in past FBI surveillance methods (FBI Special Surveillance Group or SSG's) please see this article:

Temple-Raston, Dina. 'FBI Surveillance Team Reveals Tricks Of The Trade' National Public Radio (July 5, 2008) Retrieved June 26, 2009 from:
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/st...d=92207687

The methods began in the 1970's and they are just amazing! For instance,

Some people may think FBI surveillance consists of an agent dressed in a black suit who follows someone around on foot or in a black car. However, past FBI surveillance is quite different from what some people may think it is.

The article mentions:

"Turn on any cop show, and the surveillance always seems pretty straightforward. There are always a couple of guys in a van and maybe another two in a car outside some apartment building. But the truth is, real surveillance is much more subtle…"

However, in fact:

"..The FBI has an entire army of people whose sole job is to do surveillance… the secret isn't about being a master of disguise. Instead, it is all about blending in.... And, he says, you'd have a team dressed for the occasion. SSGs carry entire wardrobes in their cars — a business suit in case they need to go to Wall Street, gym shorts in case surveillance requires them to go for a jog through Central Park…some SSGs who travel with a bicycle in their trunk so that at a moment's notice they could ride through the streets of New York pretending to be a messenger…They are prepared for anything.."

If anyone is interested I wrote about it here: http://colorado.indymedia.org/node/1835
The article is called: 'Unique FBI Surveillance of the Past'

Thank you for your time,

Nick
CrimethInc.: Towards a Collective Security Culture
Authored by: rebelmouse on Friday, June 26 2009 @ 02:35 PM UTC
I think situation is little different in EU than in USA. I think that informants exist many years in movement and they don't attend meetings and events than they are part of groups long time. their job is to pacify movement and to report if there are some "extremists". then secret agency follow "extremists" but informants just gather informations and that's all what they do. therefore they stay hidden (and adapted in groups so they can continue their job, and I don't say they are in groups just to spy, they can be really part of groups but they are against "extremists" and they are ready to cooperate with secret agency against such people).
I didn't hear for some case in Europe that informants convinced someone to make armed action, an informant can speak in that way one-two times in order to gather information what angry/emotional person would do, but they don't convince person to do something criminal. that's my experience with one foreigner who is informant, when I wanted to attack some racist institutions that discriminated me. it was very easy to see that he support me just to gather information what I would like to do.
in any case, the most important thing is that many people are naive (those who are free), they think that spies are some antisocial persons who are strange, but they don't think that their friends are spies (criminals and activists are the same about it). therefore people should be remembered: how someone can spy you if he is not friendly with you? spies can be dressed as punx, spies can be women who will have sex with you but they will spy you in any case. they must get your trust in them before they spy you.
of course, it is just to be careful, I am against paranoia in movement. and I am against one method of fight against the state, only diversity (pacifist and armed actions) is proof that situation is not under control of secret agency. as I see, Western activism is 99% pacifist, therefore I believe that movement is under control last 20 years (only in Greece secret agency don't succeed to catch urban guerrilla 20 years, in all other countries, people finish in prison very fast after they made bomb/armed action, and I think some old members of Red Brigades are not arrested).
-about "hotheads": if I decide to take a risk, and I finish in prison because of informant, it was my choice in any case (to make a risk), so nobody should say that imprisoned people are naive or stupid or "young without experience". it is disrespect for people who are ready to take a risk.
as someone said, if people are not pushed away from the side of movement, they would not stay "isolated with spy". if you can't catch spy after people finished in prison, it means you are not good connected between yourselves. maybe because of fear for yourself? don't abandon people even if you are disagreed with their action.
and people who decide to make armed actions should try to check history of each other.
CrimethInc.: Towards a Collective Security Culture
Authored by: Admin on Saturday, June 27 2009 @ 06:23 PM UTC
It's good to see this excellent essay from Crimethinc about "security culture." There is so much bullshit going on in the movement about these subjects.

But I can't help from feeling that all this talk and writing about this subject could be distilled into some simple common sense guidelines that should be a visible aspect of any radical conference.

1) Don't be a dumbshit.
2) Don't plan dumbshit activities at conferences.
3) Don't be a fucking idiot and plan illegal activities with people you don't know.
4) Stop bringing your dumbass friends to conferences.
5) More and more of us aren't going to do legal support for your motherfucking stupid actions. Take some fucking ownership of your life and decisions.

Chuck0
CrimethInc.: Towards a Collective Security Culture
Authored by: talia on Saturday, June 27 2009 @ 09:46 PM UTC
CrimethInc.: Towards a Collective Security Culture
Authored by: Admin on Saturday, June 27 2009 @ 09:51 PM UTC
I love it! Hilarious!

People should print this graphic and tape it on people's backs at anarchist conferences.

Now we just need to design one of those "I'm with stupid" t-shirts.

Chuck0
CrimethInc.: Towards a Collective Security Culture
Authored by: ScavengerType on Saturday, June 27 2009 @ 09:54 PM UTC
we should give exworker one with "I'm with informant" on it to screw with their friend.
CrimethInc.: Towards a Collective Security Culture
Authored by: biofilo on Saturday, June 27 2009 @ 10:06 PM UTC
Looks like a pdf of this poster is available at Milwaukee indymedia:

http://www.milwaukee.indymedia.org/me...211154.pdf
CrimethInc.: Towards a Collective Security Culture
Authored by: frank nowarcyck on Sunday, June 28 2009 @ 09:56 AM UTC
that's the most blaming of the victim i have seen in radical communities i have seen in a while.

i am willing to bet that the people that have gone down because of infiltrators never believed they were being dumbasses, i know from trial records that no actions with provacatuers were planned at conferences and people believed they knew and were close friends with agents (ask anna's lover, or members of the rnc 8 who were close to panda) and personally i don't consider any of my friends dumbasses.

as to not supporting folks who go down, you can fuck off, straight up.

folks who have had run ins with agents are not at fault here and do not deserve the shit you are talking. we should spend way more time dealing with abusers than trash talking our friends.
CrimethInc.: Towards a Collective Security Culture
Authored by: Al Ligator on Sunday, June 28 2009 @ 01:06 PM UTC
I highly agree.
There's one thing if your not gonna send financial support. But we all make mistakes and we should support ALL of us. How does that saying go? An injury to one is an injury to all?
Especially if we claim we want to free all prisoners, we can't pick and choose who we support, but want an end to all incarceration.
Yes, obviously no one is above critique, and we should not follow the same mistakes that put others behind bars, but I find this slander highly offensive.
What about those who commit 'stupid crimes' and end up in jail and we try to 'propagandize' them while incarcerated only to have foolish shit like this going around?
I support anti-authoritarian resistance, no matter what mistakes are made.
CrimethInc.: Towards a Collective Security Culture
Authored by: Admin on Sunday, June 28 2009 @ 06:37 PM UTC
My comments were totally serious. I've been part of this movement for more than 20 years and have given hundreds of hours of my life towards solidarity work. These comment reflect my current thoughts and feelings on these issues. As much as the work going into raising awareness about "security culture" is noble, it's also important to cut through all of this and speak directly about the stupid things that people do to get themselves into trouble. Yes, we all do dumb things that get us into trouble, but we're talking here about people who do seriously idiotic shit.

The government is clearly trying to disrupt activism and harass radicals. I'm not blaming the victim, but why should I be obligated to provide any support for dumbshits who think it is a good idea to bring molotovs to some protest? Maybe if there is evidence that innocent people were entrapped.

Chuck0
CrimethInc.: Towards a Collective Security Culture
Authored by: frank nowarcyck on Sunday, June 28 2009 @ 08:13 PM UTC
i understand that your ass-holery was serious. i never had any doubts. i've been involved in this movement for nearly half the time you have (which being in my mid-twenties is a pretty big deal) and while i may have missed the anti-apartheid struggles i have seen many of the same things you have. i agree that we should speak directly to risky behavior but that is not what you did. you created a list of overly hostile and unconstructive guidelines and posted them to your site on the interwebs. that's about as indirect as you can get. moreover none of the cases described violated any of these guidelines aside from possibly the extremely vague 'don't be a dumbass' which will serve only to make people feel invincible because most folks don't believe they ever violate that rule.

and yes, you are in fact blaming the victim of entrappment when you call them dumbasses. while i will never tell anyone that they have an obligation to support anyone i will point out that you, along with everyone else on this site, have to change your pants when you see molotovs fly in greece and (i grant that this is an assumption) would most likely love to see that level of resistance be imported to the states. this in my opinion is a reason to support everyone in our movement, whether they trust the wrong person or not.
CrimethInc.: Towards a Collective Security Culture
Authored by: Admin on Sunday, June 28 2009 @ 09:11 PM UTC
It's a shame that my thoughts are being characterized as "assholery" when they probably reflect common feelings around the movements. Most people aren't going to say what I said, because they are afraid of violating the political correct lines that govern the movement. People should be able to express these ideas, even if they are unpopular or violate the mores of the movement. People should argue with my points and not attack me as a person. I have a solid record of providing uncritical support for radicals in trouble. I've been running this site EVERY DAY for the past 13 years--this site is seen by thousands of people as an important source of information on solidarity campaigns.

My criticisms here are ones that should be made by people in the movement concerned with "security culture." We too often adopt the liberal tendency to excuse behavior committed by our comrades. We can always disagree about whether or not certain actions were smart or not.

Perhaps stupid actions by radicals are encouraged by attitudes held by people in the movement. Perhaps people should be critical of those who think they can "recreate Greece" by planning certain kinds of actions at protests.

Perhaps all this talk about security culture and my thoughts should be distilled to a simple idea: use your common sense.

Chuck0
CrimethInc.: Towards a Collective Security Culture
Authored by: frank nowarcyck on Sunday, June 28 2009 @ 09:37 PM UTC
first of all, just because an opinion may be shared by folks in the movement dooes not make it saintly. lets be honest, there are alot of judgemental assholes in this movement and when i call out folks things ass being jerkoff-ish iit's not those people i am calling out but those ideas. though i do think that your frustration with the movement not going the way you think it should has made you very mean with your critiques as of late.

i fail to see any real criticisms in what you have written on this subject all i saw was a list of guidelines that seasoned folks will giggle at and that newfolks will think they follow anyway which makes them not helpful but dangerous.

i believe erik mcdavid was using his common sense when a malicious prostitute of the state coerced him into allowing said prostitute to plan actions around him. i believe that mathew depalma was using his common sense when he was enraged at the state, our movement ignored his reaching out to it and an instigator told him to make molotovs. i believe that the texas two were using there common sense when they trusted a respected movement figuer in their community and planned an action with him. you were not using common since when you implied they were idiots.

maybe you should instead of deleteing posts that offend you and shit talking our movement you should develope strong and constructive critiques.
CrimethInc.: Towards a Collective Security Culture
Authored by: ScavengerType on Monday, June 29 2009 @ 01:08 AM UTC
To be fair chuck's bullshit is funny, but not helpful and if you were to read anything helpful on here it's likely pigers would be wise of it quickly. The reason we have disorganized security culture is because you can't talk about it here and with informants like mentioned in the article it is fast becoming anywhere. I doubt even the most cryptic message could get through clearly without attracting attention.

Ya know, I've found one of the best ways to judge a person is to look at the individual fibers of there character. Sometimes, if you know these aspects well you can help play them forward and keep them moving in the right direction. Reading between the lines with some folk and discussing motivations and people's life history.
CrimethInc.: Towards a Collective Security Culture
Authored by: frank nowarcyck on Monday, June 29 2009 @ 02:19 AM UTC
it's not really all that funny if you know folks that might go down due to infiltrators and it's not all that funny to see them blamed for the state's actions. moreover what chuck is saying goes against the entire theme of the article he's posting on. the article takes on security culture as a community responsibility where as chuck blames the work of rats on individual's stupidity.

it is our jobs to have each other's backs at all times and everytime a snitch turns or an infiltrator turns someone in it is a community wide fuck up.
CrimethInc.: Towards a Collective Security Culture
Authored by: Admin on Wednesday, July 01 2009 @ 10:26 PM UTC
It's our job to have each other's backs at all times?

No! Absolutely not!

I'm all for organizing solidarity for as as many people as possible, but it's just stupid to support every "radical" or "anarchist" who gets arrested for doing whatever. If our movement was tighter or if our activist communities were tighter, we'd be in a position to extend solidarity to just about anybody. But why should I, or anybody else, extend solidarity for any anarchist or activist who gets in trouble with the law? Why should I support somebody who happens to be a sketchy asshole who gets involved with some protest and gets in trouble?

I really think that many anarchist activists believe that all of their comrades are on the same page with the blanket solidarity ethic. There have to be lots of anarchists out there who withhold solidarity because they don't know anything about the people in trouble or are sketched out by the actions they are accused of doing. Anarchists are already selective about which kinds of activists we do solidarity for-most of us won't do much to help out liberal or leftist activists.

Chuck0
CrimethInc.: Towards a Collective Security Culture
Authored by: biofilo on Sunday, June 28 2009 @ 03:06 PM UTC

In all seriousness, now, I'm with Frank and Al. Chuck's comments are funny, but individualistic in exactly the way that the article above critiques. The point is that agents provocateurs go after the most vulnerable and inexperienced people--that means the people who are probably not reading security culture guides right now, not even short and insulting ones.

It's totally understandable that people are angry and want to fight the system--and some of these people don't come from communities in which they've gotten a chance to learn about security culture. When those people show up in our community, we have to be there for them, helping them learn all the challenges and dangers facing them, from the very moment they show up.

This may seem like a bother, and maybe it's tempting for some people to blame the victims rather than the state. But we have to create a community in which people can keep themselves and each other safe, even new people. Otherwise, we'll never be able to build up the social ties and power and focus we need for serious struggle. Whether or not you want to do legal support for individuals who get entrapped, this is still essential for the sake of our whole community.

In my case, as someone who is part of a more general prisoner support project, it's not a question of whether to support individual activists who are targeted--we're already trying to support prisoners generally, so it's a foregone conclusion. The least we can fucking do as a community is try to make sure people from our own circles know how to stay safe, so that there will be fewer people "inside" that we have to do prisoner support for.
CrimethInc.: Towards a Collective Security Culture
Authored by: ScavengerType on Saturday, June 27 2009 @ 07:59 PM UTC
The problem with infiltrators seems to be, from an outsider's perspective here, that there is relatively no disincentives aside from alienation and scorn from the anarchist/eco community for such measures of treason.

For example, following the McDavid conviction some scorn was pointed at this "Anna" character and someone even listed a buisness she had been operating in New York (if I am not mistaken) on infoshop. Information like this seemed like it could have been used to start a serious campaign of boycotts or protests against this establishment, or in other words to help end her life"s work. A large non-'violent display like this could set an example for future persons who are considering taking money from the government to snitch. If the economic benefit of the money/leniency they receive from the state is absolved by their actions new, snitches could become permanently squelched. For fear of <i>vocal public</i> reprisal.

You may call my Ideas too liberal but I am quite surprised photos like the one featured in this article are not featured on the NAEFLPO web page. I am a world away it seams from the mess these activists experience, and maybe my perception can't cross borders clearly. However I maintain that the above mentioned tactics could strongly dissuade the sort of freelance traitor type mentioned here.
CrimethInc.: Towards a Collective Security Culture
Authored by: femin(A)zi on Saturday, June 27 2009 @ 08:57 PM UTC
you are confusing the snitch with the agent provocateur.

lauren weiner (snitch) was one of the three people anna (the agent provocateur) helped the feds entrap and arrest. she was the first to turn against her co-defendants and was later joined by zachary jenson in testifying against eric mcdavid.

lauren weiner lives in new york and either owns or works at a restaurant. "anna" is supposedly living in california these days.
CrimethInc.: Towards a Collective Security Culture
Authored by: ScavengerType on Saturday, June 27 2009 @ 09:51 PM UTC
danm well that would not be a significant enough person to go after if one wanted to send a significant message.

If someone signed up for http://www.whosarat.com/ after it was posted on here maybe they could gather information on those four's location and relay such information to concerned activists. Explicitly for non-violent demonstrations and boycotts purposes, of course.
CrimethInc.: Towards a Collective Security Culture
Authored by: ScavengerType on Wednesday, July 01 2009 @ 09:54 PM UTC
"Of camelion like metamorphoses saying we want to plant the tree of tomorrow sounds crazy, but neverless to us, is not for us born of drama or obsolete Unitarianism. We know all that and neverless that is what we want. That is what we are doing. How many people in the worlds that make up the world can say yes we do. That they are doing what they want to. We think there are many, that the worlds of the world are are filled with crazy and foolish people each planting their trees for each of their tomorrows."
-Marcos