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Saturday, July 31 2010 @ 04:07 PM UTC

One direction, Trans and Queer insurrection: A reportback from the Bash Back! convergence

QueerThe weekend of April 4th-6th, radical transfolk, queers, anarcha-feminists, from all over the country converged in Chicago for the Bash Back! anti-DNC/RNC convergence. In attendance were folks from Illinois, Wisconsin, Michigan, Minnesota, Virginia, Tennessee, New York, Georgia, Missouri, Colorado, California and elsewhere. Only one direction, trans and queer insurrection: A reportback from the Bash Back! anti-RNC/DNC convergence.

The Convergence:

The weekend of April 4th-6th, radical transfolk, queers, anarcha-feminists, from all over the country converged in Chicago for the Bash Back! anti-DNC/RNC convergence. In attendance were folks from Illinois, Wisconsin, Michigan, Minnesota, Virginia, Tennessee, New York, Georgia, Missouri, Colorado, California and elsewhere. Groups including Bash Back!, Queer Action Network, the Revolting Queers, Unconventional Denver, The RNC Welcoming Committee, Anarchist People of Color, Roadblock Earth First!, the Pomegranate Health Collective, and Code Pink were represented. The convergence succeeded in creating a safe space for queer, trans, gendervariant and womyn anarchists to meet and articulate our plans to crash the conventions.

Workshops:

Friday night, representatives of Roadblock Earth First! shared information about the current situation in Indiana, where activists are working to stop the construction of the "NAFTA Superhighway", Instersate-69. On Saturday, transgendered activist Midge Potts spoke about her experiences with creative activism and as the first transperson to run for a federal office. Later, Eric Stanley discussed the relationship of queer and trans people to the prison industrial complex followed by a screening of his film 'Homotopia' and the short 'By any means necessary'. Later that day, several people attended a DIY sex toy workshop. On Sunday, representatives of the RNC Welcoming Committee and Unconventional Denver discussed the proposed strategies for the Republican National Convention (Sept. 1-4 in St. Paul) and the Democratic National Convention (Aug. 25-28 in Denver).

Caucuses:

At the convergence, space was created for a people of color caucus, a transgender caucus, and a womyn's caucus. The POC caucus discussed the need for a future anti-gentrification conference to discuss strategies to oppose gentrification. In their reportback, the POC caucus also asked that anyone distributing the zine "Go Light" and three anti-RNC stickers featuring a white hunter and dead elephants, indigenous people, and ninjas stop doing so immediately. During the POC caucus, a white auxiliary caucus met to discuss strategies to confront white privilege and white supremacy. The trans caucus discussed several issues and challenges that needed to be addressed at the strategizing session to ensure the safety of transpeople during the conventions. Simultaneously a cisgendered caucus met to discuss what it meant to be a trans-ally. While the womyn's caucus met, a caucus for male privileged folks and a caucus for those who didn't feel comfortable in either met.

"DNC, We'll fuck you up!":

During the Sunday strategizing session, two proposals were consensed upon for the Democratic National Convention. Unconventional Denver has proposed themes for the actions each day of the convention. It was thus determined that trans and queer action at the DNC should fit within those themes. After the immigrants rights march on "No Borders Day", it was agreed that there should be a "no gender borders" action targeted at assimilationist and transphobic elements of the convention such as the Stonewall Democrats. It was also decided that during the "Free Political Prisoners Day" there will be an action focused on freeing the New Jersey 4.

"Republicans, don't fuck with us!":

The strategizing session then shifted towards addressing proposals for action at the RNC. Bash Back! Chicago proposed a reclaim the streets style dance party blockade to fit within the three-tiered strategy – More specifically, a dance party coupled with hard defenses. The declared intention is to create a situation wherein it is possible to have liberating and festive action; an empowering situation of which we can defend and maintain. This will be an action for the first day strategy of the convention. The Idea was also proposed that the Log Cabin Republicans be targeted by actions.
The session also endorsed an idea proposed by the Revolting Queers of Minneapolis. They described an underwear bike ride action. This will be a more relaxing action to happen later in the convention.

Trans inclusion and solidarity:

Coming out of the trans caucus, it was very clear that transfolk (and womyn and queers) all face increased dangers in participating in direct action. While being arrested is a miserable situation for anyone, it can be especially horrific for trans and gendervariant folks. Thus we are determined to creating safe infrastructure for supporting transfolk at the conventions and within our movement. Firstly, getting transfolk out of jail will be the first priority of jail solidarity. Secondly, in mass arrest situations, we will refuse to be separated by gender and will give gender neutral aliases such as "Jesse Doe" as opposed to John or Jane. It should be noted that this is not only a tactic that will be practiced by those involved with the trans and queer bloc, but should be endorsed by all groups participating in direct action. Bash Back! will work to educate other groups on this tactic leading up to the conventions. Thirdly, we will work very closely with local DNC and RNC organizers to ensure that legal, medical and housing infrastructure all take into account the specific needs of transfolk.

"Wake up, bash back, trans and queer, pink and black!":

Saturday night, over 100 convergence attendees took to the streets of Chicago. The action was a response to the one trans and/or queer person murdered every eight days in this country. We are being systematically murdered; and we set out to show that we are done with the violence and invisibility forced on our bodies. Starting in the Lincoln Park neighborhood, we took the road and marched through all the way through and into Boystown. Along the way, we first stopped to confront the Republican party headquarters of Chicago. There, we broke into a dancing and chanting. "We're here! We're queer! Republicans, don't fuck with us! We're here! We're queer! And we don't fuck republicans!"

The procession then marched to the district police station. Despite the cops' rhetoric about being "LGBT friendly", while the reality is that those very cops are complicit in violence against queer and trans people. Thus, we marched to the police station and confronted the perpetrators of anti-queer and anti-trans violence. After obstructing the movement of traffic (including a hummer limousine), for ten minutes, we marched to the LGBT center. There, we confronted the center for its trans-exclusion, its erasure of sex workers in the queer community, and its involvement with AIDS profiteers and vivisectors. After having marched through the roads for approximately two miles, police forced the march to stop. We then broke out into a dance party near Wrigley field. After continuing right in the face of the police for quite some time, the dance party disbanded and everyone got home without a single arrest.

This action was extremely empowering. It was the largest radical trans and queer action in Chicago since 2004. Beyond that, it was a march that was uncompromisingly confrontational, yet extremely fun. We took our rage and grief to the doorsteps of those responsible -cops, republicans, assimilationists and AIDS profiteers- and we danced in their faces.

Break-out Groups and Moving forward:

After the strategizing session, three break-out groups met; communications, legal and logistics. The people involved with the communications group bottom-lined reportbacks, calls to action, regional call-outs and working on a website and listserv (bashback@lists.riseup.net). Those in the logistics group talked about the specific medical and housing needs of queer and trans folks. The legal group further discussed the jail solidarity tactics, and the need for know your rights workshops and to raise legal funds.

We now have a little less than five months to the conventions, and we have a lot of work to do until that point. In may, we'll be meeting in the twin cities for the pReNC 5.3. In June, during the weekend of Milwaukee's pridefest, Bash Back! Milwaukee will host a gathering to further articulate the strategy for September. Thus, we must put out a call for transfolk and queers on the west coast, in the mountains, and in the sweaty south to host convergences and consultas. We've laid out the strategy; now we all need to find out how to plug in, work out the details, and shut this shit down.

Plug In:

BashBack@lists.riseup.net

unconventionalaction.org

dncdisruption08.org

nornc.org
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One direction, Trans and Queer insurrection: A reportback from the Bash Back! convergence | 45 comments | Create New Account
The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.
One direction, Trans and Queer insurrection: A reportback from the Bash Back! convergence
Authored by: augustcjohnson on Thursday, April 10 2008 @ 10:07 PM UTC
What are the specific concerns with "Go Light". It's not a zine I am
personally familiar with so it would help if there were to be an actual
complaint about it. Please elaborate.
One direction, Trans and Queer insurrection: A reportback from the Bash Back! convergence
Authored by: augustcjohnson on Saturday, April 12 2008 @ 09:13 PM UTC
Once again, so are we to take this seriously? Are there any definitive
grievances against "Go Light"? If so, please speak to them. You can't
expect folks to just stop distro-ing something if you don't give them a
reason to. If there are serious issue with this zine it's important people are
aware of them so we can guard against them in the future. Please explain
yourselves.
One direction, Trans and Queer insurrection: A reportback from the Bash Back! convergence
Authored by: communitycntrl on Saturday, April 12 2008 @ 11:03 PM UTC
you should try email their listserv thingy they got going.
One direction, Trans and Queer insurrection: A reportback from the Bash Back! convergence
Authored by: augustcjohnson on Sunday, April 13 2008 @ 11:20 AM UTC
I did and the administrators of the list didn't approve it for distribution o
the list-serve. I geuss no one really cares. Sad, that they would issue a
proclamation like that and not even follow up on it.
One direction, Trans and Queer insurrection: A reportback from the Bash Back! convergence
Authored by: bashback on Monday, April 14 2008 @ 09:35 AM UTC
Actually, your email was forwarded to the rest of the listserve. So next time instead of making wild accusations you should look into your shit. Also, if no one responded to you it could mean a number of different things. One reason could be that the convergence was a very busy time for people. Many people committed to serious work that is going to take a long time to finish. Or maybe people felt as if they would rather contact people they know for sure have been distro-ing the zines and stickers first, then address the broader community.

A respectable response that the broader community should learn from is that of MKE to RNC (an anarchist group in Milwaukee organizing for the RNC shutdown.) MKE to RNC released a statement that the stickers they originally designed should no longer be used and other people distributing the stickers should stop doing so. Unlike other people in the "community" MKE to RNC has clearly shown that they are willing to confront fucked up behaviors and respect the wishes of oppressed people working within our movements.

This request by the POC caucus at Bash Back! has been met with hostility by some people who would describe themselves as anarchists. Kevin Tucker for example has said some really fucked up shit about the Caucus' concerns and just goes to show that this movement has some serious race, class, and heterosexist issues to overcome before we can go anywhere. How are people of color, womyn, trans people, and queers supposed to trust others or want to work with yall to challenge this system if all of our concerns are met with extremely rude and defensive language? Many people hope and feel that Bash Back! is an important tool for countering oppressive behavior within anarchist circles. It's funny how white, straight, men in our movements always wonder why there are only white, straight, men in our movements...I think Kevin Tucker's reaction to the message that was sent to him is a clear reason for why that is the case.

Until yall can respect our decisions, requests, demands, bodies, and identities in organizing circles there will never be true unity.

To all of us smashing the fuck out of Oppression within the movement,
A genderfuck, primitivist, queermo, member of bash back!
One direction, Trans and Queer insurrection: A reportback from the Bash Back! convergence
Authored by: augustcjohnson on Monday, April 14 2008 @ 10:50 AM UTC
I don't feel that I've made any "wild accusations". Perhaps the internet is
a poor medium for having this discussion. You did however post this
proclamation on-line so that's really the only way I have of investigating it.
I would add that I'm not trying to discredit or disrespect you or anyone
else. My whole motivation here is to have a clear discussion of the zine in
contention that would hopefully be facillated by those who have greivances
against it and those who defend it, like perhaps the zine's authors.
One direction, Trans and Queer insurrection: A reportback from the Bash Back! convergence
Authored by: augustcjohnson on Monday, April 14 2008 @ 09:21 AM UTC
from "Eager" (report back from POC Bash Back caucus)
The People of Color Caucus found the imagery in the zine to be racist,
because it romanticized stereotypes, especially those of the "primitive"
or "savage".
They felt it misrepresented the conditions of those in third
world Asian/African families, to portray the "foreign, non-industrialized
family unit" as utopian.


The title "Go Light" was also found offensive, because it arrogantly
assumes that "going light" is a choice made by the people of rural Sri
Lanka or Botswana, when it is more often due to the deprivation of
resources or an exploitation of existing resources by the commercialized
West.


Lastly, the term "wild child" was deemed offensive --intentionally or
not-- because it presupposes that Western values are "normal", and
implies
that all other cultural norms are "wild", "deviant", or "exotic".


PS: If you're interested in a non-romanticized account of traditional
African family life I'd recommend "Things Fall Apart" by Achebe.
You'll
find that traditional African family life isn't any less repressive than
European/American family life.
One direction, Trans and Queer insurrection: A reportback from the Bash Back! convergence
Authored by: augustcjohnson on Monday, April 14 2008 @ 09:22 AM UTC
Reply from Kevin Tucker (author of "Species Traitor", not "Go Light")
So that a caucus got together to discuss Go Light is hilarious to me,
ALMOST as much as their conclusions. But the things said here are
stupid ass comments made generally to green anarchists and anarcho-
primitivists in general.

I'm short on time, but let me blast a few of these moronic 'arguments'.


1) Images are 'racist' or support stereotypes:
This is just ludicrous. If images of 'primitives' are racist, then it's whites
against the world, unless of course you're talking about pro-paganists
which are sometimes upheld as primitivists and by most post WWI
estimates, considered white. Most anarcho-primitivists wouldn't go that
far as to say that Celts or other Euro-Pagans as 'primal', myself
included, but it's not a stretch.

Having savagely used images of 'savages' before and continue to do, I
can assert that the idea of a race of 'savages' is ridiculous. I personally
have used images of tribe and band level societies from nearly every
part of Africa, all of Oceania, throughout Indo-China, the Americas from
the northern most to the southern most tips...well pretty much EVERY
CONTINENT. That's a lot of people, but in case you're missing the
obvious point here, the issue is not with race or that someone with given
skin tone is necessarily primitive (context people!), but that certain skin
tones MIGHT be represented in those pictures.
If someone looks at a picture of a hunter gatherer, regardless of skin
color, and only sees skin color, and, hence, a validation of whatever
racism they adhere to, is that our fault?
The essence of primitivism is that it inverts social theory/standards, and
it has done so since the inception of social stratification at the dawn of
sedentism. Those who feel they are (becoming) civilized can only
validate their exchange of freedoms by damning those "stuck" in the
older, more egalitarian, freer ways. So they make divisions.

In this sense, the historical divisions are SAVAGE for hunter gatherers
and small scale horticulturalists, BARBARIAN for "a member of a
primitive civilization" (aka large scale horticulturalists, pastoralists, and a
chunk of agricultural societies) and CIVIILIZED for stratified
agriculturalists and later colonialists/industrialists/technocrats.

The divisions were originally descriptive more than straight faced insults.
And they're not wrong in representing levels of stratified societies. But,
naturally, values were placed and it's no question to where and by
whom. And primitivists, in turn, have not rejected the divisions, but
flipped the values.

You can take whatever issues you want with that, but it's something I
stand by personally. It is NOT an issue of race, but an issue of societies
and levels of societies. Is it wrong to use images of band level societies
in anarchist magazines? NO. The articles in Go Light, Species Traitor,
Green Anarchist or any other anarcho-primitivist magazine are about
these people, the images put a face to it, and, if you'll notice, they're
not your miserable, depressed images that cover so much more of
anarchist/radical papers.

But I'm not judging, I use both. But I have interests in not just showing
peoples living in these ways, but in showing that these are peoples and
that the things happening to them, the things CIVILIZED people are
doing to them are affecting them.

This gets pushed around a lot and I'm tired of hearing it. Pictures are
pictures. I have so few correlations, but that would be like saying that
images of animals in factory farms or steel traps only adds to their
exploitation. Or, dare I say, iconic images of turn of the century striking
industrial steel workers only pushes together a notion of white
comradery. You can draw anything when you REMOVE THE CONTEXT.
But that's not what we're doing, we're using the images IN CONTEXT
and we have a purpose.

Perhaps some "people of color" or, since we weren't all born
'CIVILIZED', "peoples of non-color", have guilt about the fact their
ancestors too were "SAVAGES", but why do I care. Drawing that out is
EXACTLY MY POINT.

This transcends race, but I'm sorry if a picture of gatherer-hunters can
only be seen as a picture of Africans, Asians, South Americans, Arctic
dwellers, or, what have you.

This point is knee jerk reactionism from pro-civilized, pro-Progress
assholes too ashamed that anyone else in the world may not have their
interests in sucking up to the very civilization/s responsible for damning
and repressing their ancestors and the people they pretend to care
about.

Radical missionaries are still missionaries, and I hope there is a hell just
for them.


To the particular morons behind this. Please catch up on the past half
centuries worth of social theory. Ever heard of 'fourth world'? That is
peoples who have rejected or live beyond the trifecta of capitalist social
stratum and, if they could, would live that way forever.

And, I'll have to point this out again later, I believe the really bullshit "-
ists" thinking lies in the kind of standardization that can only think in
binary "industrial" vs. "non-industrial" family structures.

You're doing yourself a disservice by not reading the works your
damning, you only look like a bigger moron and not giving credit to
seeing that things are far more complex than a dualist option.

And do I think nomadic gatherer hunter family structures are utopia? No,
I don't believe in utopia, but I believe in WILDNESS, our inherent state
of PRIMAL ANARCHY, and our innate functioning ANIMALITY that we
evolved into as nomadic gatherer hunters. To put it another way, I
believe in practicality, and I know what works.
I can back that up with the fact that humans still exist after millions of
years?
What does your "alternative" (assuming one might exist) offer?

2) The title 'Go Light':
HA FUCKING HA HA. 'Going light' is an ecological term, not an
anthropological one. It's meant in a pro-active sense for those who don't
have the cultural intelligence to realize that if you piss in your bed, you
have to sleep in it too. It's meant for civilized people who don't know
any better.

And that's how it's applied, the metaphor carries on into concepts like
'ecological footprints'. And you know what the standard is? Nomadic
gatherer hunters: the people who didn't have technology that would give
their grand children cancer for 700 generations or the lack of intelligence
to think that some possible immediate gratification of something as fun
as mining for iron ore was worth it.

Just as every nomadic gatherer hunter wouldn't make off hand remarks
on the failures of Bakunin's thinking, it doesn't mean they aren't living in
an anarchistic society in the true sense. These terms are DESCRIPTIVE,
not self ascribed. Do the !kung tell their children to 'go light' when going
to the bathroom? No. Do Inuit elders have to tell each other to 'go light'
when making a fire? No. Do Hadza tell each other to 'go light' when
foraging? No.

Why? Because "going light" is a practicality and a matter of life. You
fuck up now, you fuck yourself. That's it.

But you know what? They live in a way where there isn't really a chance
to do this, it's not like going to 7-11 buying a Pepsi bottled in Burma, a
Twinkie made of toxic and GMO ingredients from across the world,
some electronic crap made in a number of sweat shops, a
microwaveable burger from a factory farm with soy planted in the
deforested Amazon, or buying gas coming from any number of regional
warzones. THINK ABOUT IT. It really isn't that difficult of a concept and
even less why it makes an APPROPRIATE zine title.


But the idea that "people of Sri Lanka or Botswana" (bullshit nationalist
standardization if I ever heard it) aren't "getting theirs" cause of lack of
access to resources? Amazing. Simply amazing.

Botswana: various San peoples are mentioned in Go Light, but they are
living in some semblance (limited by those coming for their "resources")
of how they've lived for tens, if not, hundreds of thousands of years. It's
not like they're hunting and gathering because they knew at some later
time some asshole from DeBeers was going to steal their land for
DIAMOND mines or that if all of the sudden the government of
Botswana realized that national reserves were places meant to go wild
instead of being used as theme parks for first world tourists the San
peoples would reject "the oppressive family unit" and industrialize and
stop EMBARRASSING first world douche bags by doing something so
"deprived" as living within their own means.

Try reading a fucking book dip shits. Get over your Marxist/Modernizing
CRAPOLA.


3) "Wild Child" as upholding "normalization of western values":
I'm embarrassed for this caucus.
This is the best they could do?
Why is "Wild" a cultural norm? What does that have to do with
anything? This is just plain silly.

Wild is a definable term. It has a pretty widely defined context, so much
so that even a genre of films and books surrounds it. It's not like the
subtitle using "Wild Child" solidifies anything that a hundred authors,
poets, and local story tellers, and, dare I say, HISTORIANS have already
well established. There is a meaning here.

Wild Child refers to a child that has gone "wild". That is living in an
'animalistic' sense (by the civilizers views), or over coming civilized
norms. In so far as the term has to do with cultural norms, it is
CONFRONTING them, rather than simply playing with them. Again,
PRO-ACTIVE TERM, PRO-ACTIVE CONCEPT.

Here's another concept: have an issue, THEN a caucus. Maybe then
you'll have something WORTH critiquing.
Of all the racist shit in this world, of all the slavery, daily bullshit,
ecological destruction, warfare, EVERYTHING, this is what you discuss?
PASS.


4) "AFRICAN"
And always end with a bang.

How many books does 'Go Light' reference? How many books and
cultures have primitivists talked about? How many cultures have I
personally spoke about to highlight the fact that anarcho-primitivism isn't
just some theory, but pointing towards so much more? And this is what
you have? One book, on one culture to prove one point about the
oppressiveness of the AFRICAN/AMERICAN FAMILY UNIT?
If I had a grapple on what racism is: a blanket grouping of peoples
based on skin tone, I'd realize that blanketing any group based on
COLONIAL lines and maps is BULLSHIT.
What the fuck does this have to do with how nomadic gatherer hunters
lived? Or horticulturalists? Or anyone else!
All continents are huge. And who culturally or genetically comes from
one doesn't mean SHIT outside of some racist lens/classification. I have
so little in common with my dad, less yet my neighbors. It hasn't always
been that way, but cultures are not regions or skin tones.
If we're rejecting racism, why are you upholding it like this?
Anarcho-primitivists, like any other social theorists or historians or just as
people look at societies: either as a whole or individuals or whether or
not either term might apply. But most societies do have particular family
structures, and if that means half of them reject the structure, well,
that's part of it too. But it's about social critique and social action. That's
the point of reading and learning and living. Look around you, see what's
fucked up, see where the fucked up shit comes from, and act on it.
What we do as anarcho-primitivists is to lay all that out, band by band,
society by society, AS A PART OF OUR CRITIQUE.

And that means UNDERSTANDING. It means understanding that two
societies on different sides of Africa might have as little in common as
two societies that live SIDE BY SIDE. Does your ONE BOOK help shed
light on why Mbuti gatherer hunters are being KILLED and EATEN by
their sedentary, agricultural neighbors? Both are African societies.
Does it answer that?
FUCK NO.


Take your recommendations, your condemnations, and your civilized
bullshit values and SHOVE THEM UP YOUR FUCKING ASSES.

Next time read what you damn and you might not look like such fucking
morons.


Always and forever for the PRIMITIVE.

Fuck racism, nationalism and Modernizing douche bags with nothing
better to do than play ball on the racist's court.

When civilization crashes, you won't be safe riding the fence.


For wildness and anarchy,
Kevin Tucker,
editor of Species Traitor and Black and Green, NOT 'GO LIGHT'.
One direction, Trans and Queer insurrection: A reportback from the Bash Back! convergence
Authored by: Admin on Monday, April 14 2008 @ 09:26 AM UTC
If people come together over vast distances and then spend their time being hypercritical about images in a zine, it sounds like they don't have more important things to talk about. If you have criticisms about the content in a zine, write a review and publish it somewhere. It's pretty silly to make a federal case out of the content in a zine that only a few people will read.

Chuck
One direction, Trans and Queer insurrection: A reportback from the Bash Back! convergence
Authored by: bashback on Monday, April 14 2008 @ 09:43 AM UTC
Once again, It is pretty easy for white men to judge an entire group of queer people of color who hae a valid critique.
Although I fail to see why people should go about expressing their dissent the way you say we have to, what you reccommend is essentially what happened...people had a critique, they brought it to the rest of us, and then in our reportback and further comments we brought that concern to you. Publishing grievences on this forum and through other lists is exactly how we went about doing it. It is pretty fucked up that you would label concerns brought forth by trans and queer people of color as anything close to tactics used by the federal government.
One direction, Trans and Queer insurrection: A reportback from the Bash Back! convergence
Authored by: Admin on Monday, April 14 2008 @ 10:02 AM UTC
I don't know you, so you obviously don't know me. I'm wondering how you know so much about my race and sexual orientation when you haven't met me. It's hard to take your response seriously if you open with a weak attack that is based on *false* assumptions about me as a person.

Yes, they have a valid critique. It's a critique, not a set of facts. My criticism of their methods is that they displays a poor sense of proportionality. It's this kind of outrage over every minor thing that makes it harder to get non-radical white people to take racism seriously.

This is a good example of identity politics intersecting with political correctness. This is PC because people are magnifying a minor issue--the content of zine--into something that has to be talked about at a conference, over email, and here on this forum. If people disagree over whether or not this content is offensive, then there is obviously a set of differing opinions. I haven't seen the zine and the content doesn't sound horrible to me. I think the best way to react to zine content that falls into a fuzzy area is to write and publish reviews of the zine in question.

Chuck0
One direction, Trans and Queer insurrection: A reportback from the Bash Back! convergence
Authored by: f xx f y on Monday, April 14 2008 @ 10:27 AM UTC
i have a lot of trouble getting along in 'anarchist communities' nowadays because i feel like sometimes people get onto this track of psychoanalyzing people based upon gender and race at very first glance. what i'm definitely not saying is that privilege doesn't exist (because fuck yeah it does) but sometimes life is far more complex than "you are a white male, therefore every behavior you have is completely immersed in privilege, and therefore i can completely disregard you based upon that." it's really important to check people who actively make some place unsafe, but i feel when you take these ideas too far it becomes really divisive really fast.

"Once again, It is pretty easy for white men to judge an entire group of queer people of color who hae a valid critique."

i find when you word things in this way it can be really silencing. in some circumstances that's what you're looking for but i feel like chuck was just kind of putting an idea out there and not telling you what to do.

identity politics are quite a stormy sea..
One direction, Trans and Queer insurrection: A reportback from the Bash Back! convergence
Authored by: f xx f y on Monday, April 14 2008 @ 10:09 AM UTC
i wasn't in chicago for this thing but i do feel like there might be more important things to talk about in a queer people of color caucus than a single zine that can probably be completely disregarded as quack anthropology like most self-prescribed "primitivist" literature. i really hope yall had some good, constructive conversations and didn't get too caught up on picking apart a zine. i feel like there have been a million conversations about the inherent racism of the primitivist party line, not to mention the other million or two worthwhile critiques that most people have.
One direction, Trans and Queer insurrection: A reportback from the Bash Back! convergence
Authored by: Admin on Monday, April 14 2008 @ 10:13 AM UTC
I've never seen any racism in primitivist writings, but then I haven't read all of them. People tend to make lazy, ignorant accusations about primitivist writings instead of critically engaging those writings.

I'm also interested in hearing more about the conference, which had me interested in attending.

Chuck0
One direction, Trans and Queer insurrection: A reportback from the Bash Back! convergence
Authored by: bashback on Monday, April 14 2008 @ 10:35 AM UTC
First of all Chuck, I didn't say shit about your sexuality. I said it is easy for white men to take a certain position.

Second of all, it is "lazy," and "ignorant," to assume that the only thing discussed was this zine or to assume that the zine even comprised a majority of the conversation. Especially upon reading the article, those of you making judgements about the extent to which things were discussed, should have seen that in the reportback three other topics were mentioned. Seeing as this reportback was extremely condensed one can only believe that an array of important issues were discussed.

Also, the only ones making a big deal out of this are those, like kevin tucker, who are talking mad shit on a simple request. If white people are to be seen as true allies to people of color, they wouldn't flip their fucking lids about a one paragraph reportback of a caucus. Instead they would look at the zine, read it, think about it and discuss why SOME things in the zine are offensive to people of color.

Finally, fuck this "Identity Politics" bullshit. Striving for Collective Libeartion is not Identity Politics. Yall need to understand that many people who face discrimination and oppression because of their gender, sexuality, skin color, or other bodily differences have been radicalized as a result of their identities. Labeling people's struggle for Liberation as PC or Identity Politics gets yall a big blue ribbon for Alienating those who face the most bullshit.

We will organize how we see fit and we will make demands that others must meet. Otherwise there will be no Liberation regardless of whether or not there is a collapse. The white men's revolution will never be complete without taking into account these concerns and fighting along side of those who really do have nothing to lose.
One direction, Trans and Queer insurrection: A reportback from the Bash Back! convergence
Authored by: f xx f y on Monday, April 14 2008 @ 11:05 AM UTC
i wasn't making judgement about what was discussed. i can only pay a certain amount of attention to things i read on a computer screen and was simply stating an unimportant and vague concern. i'm not telling you what to do.

i certainly do understand radicalization due to gender presentation and sexuality and am no stranger to it. i also don't think that anything im going to be able to say through this internet medium is really going to mean a single goddamn thing.

and that kevin tucker article was very obviously fucking ridiculous and probably one of the best examples of primitivist self-righteous arrogance i've ever encountered.
One direction, Trans and Queer insurrection: A reportback from the Bash Back! convergence
Authored by: Admin on Monday, April 14 2008 @ 11:12 AM UTC

First of all Chuck, I didn't say shit about your sexuality. I said it is easy for white men to take a certain position.

Yet, the first line of your response after my comment was about white men. Since you don't know me personally, perhaps you ought to lay off labeling a person that you don't know. This is one reason why people get so tired of these discussions--they are about judgmental people who are more interesting in labeling other people instead of talking to them about these issues.

Second of all, it is "lazy," and "ignorant," to assume that the only thing discussed was this zine or to assume that the zine even comprised a majority of the conversation.

I have no idea how much this issue got talked about, but the fact that this was discussed at all and reported on makes me wonder. Perhaps it was just a 15 minute conversation--in that case, this discussion is excessive.

Especially upon reading the article, those of you making judgements about the extent to which things were discussed, should have seen that in the reportback three other topics were mentioned. Seeing as this reportback was extremely condensed one can only believe that an array of important issues were discussed.

The more important issues aren't that controversial. I appreciate the reportback about everything else that was discussed. Obviously, this was a good conference, but that doesn't mean that we can't criticize some of the sillier aspects of what transpired.

Instead they would look at the zine, read it, think about it and discuss why SOME things in the zine are offensive to people of color.

You mean, "things int he zine that are offensive to SOME people of color." One of the obvious signs of political correctness is the assumption that all people of color think the same thing about some minor issue.

Finally, fuck this "Identity Politics" bullshit. Striving for Collective Libeartion is not Identity Politics. Yall need to understand that many people who face discrimination and oppression because of their gender, sexuality, skin color, or other bodily differences have been radicalized as a result of their identities.

I'm just calling out bullshit where I read it. Your statement hear sounds like boilerplate outrage that comes from white radicals who are uncritical of people of color. If people really suffer from oppression, then wouldn't you hope that they would focus on important issues and not some vague outrage about something in a minor zine?

Labeling people's struggle for Liberation as PC or Identity Politics gets yall a big blue ribbon for Alienating those who face the most bullshit.

I fully expect that those POcs with working bullshit detectors will appreciate my honesty for calling out bullshit. I'm not one of those chickenshit white radicals who disrespect people of color by treating them like they are too fragile to hear my opinions.

We will organize how we see fit and we will make demands that others must meet. Otherwise there will be no Liberation regardless of whether or not there is a collapse. The white men's revolution will never be complete without taking into account these concerns and fighting along side of those who really do have nothing to lose.

Hey, that sounds good to me, but you ain't going to get anywhere if the content of some zine becomes the focus of your revolution.

Oi, it's Monday and I'm supposed to stay out of flame wars on Mondays.

Chuck0

One direction, Trans and Queer insurrection: A reportback from the Bash Back! convergence
Authored by: commie on Tuesday, April 15 2008 @ 07:21 AM UTC
a few pieces of input from an APOC caucus goer. firstly, Chuck0 says that he thinks if the chat about the zine was 15 minutes, than the response to it is overblown/"discussion is excessive". It couldn't have been more then 3 minutes. if that. and then it was briefly mentioned in the reportback to the larger group (and, in the interest of full disclosure, was the only material we mentioned that was defended by a white person). more time was spent over the MKEtoRNC stickers, which were more directly related to the conference, and which had a much more speedy and positive resolution. I personally commend them for their response. seventeen to twenty people were in this caucus and agreed with each other about most of the stickers and the zine. and thats plenty bigger than most POC caucuses ive been at in anarchist/antiauthoritarian gatherings.

for a more detailed (but also incomplete) discussion of the POC caucus, check my blog. the "Go Light" receives a total of one sentence in four paragraphs about the POC caucus. maybe so people can understand it wasnt our top priority.

secondly, kevin tucker (who i realize has not yet directly posted to this thread) mentions some pretty weak arguments on his own part. something about "haven't they ever heard of fourth world?" yes, i have. fourth world, as is far more often defined, includes regions in stages of underdevelopment/decline (caused by, some idiots argue, overpopulation), where capitalism and racist imperialism have led to widescale disease, famine, and poverty. tucker's version of the term is only (that ive seen) used among the anti-civ crowd, so he misleads people in defining that term without context. but enough about tucker, there's too much to go into in there for this thread.

Chuck0, you mention, I think, that you've never seen anything overtly racist in primitivist writings? what about zerzan's article analyzing the KKK? i would say thats over the top.

as for the zine, as i mention in my blog, i am planning to read it for a better critique of it. and i have helped plenty of anti-civ organizing (tho never ever ever have i thought that way), so i know it pretty well. likewise, there were green anarchists in the POC caucus.

One direction, Trans and Queer insurrection: A reportback from the Bash Back! convergence
Authored by: augustcjohnson on Tuesday, April 15 2008 @ 11:57 AM UTC
"In the following article are presented some unusual features of the Ku
Klux Klan of the 1920s, the only period in which the KKK was a mass
movement. In no way should this essay be interpreted as an
endorsement of any aspect of this version of the Klan or of any other
parts of Klan activity. Nonetheless, the loathsome nature of the KKK of
today should not blind us to what took place within the Klan 70 years
ago, in various places and against the wishes and ideology of the Klan
itself."
-Thats the opening paragraph to Zerzan's essay on "rank and file
radicalism" within the KKK, he then goes on to discuss how certain
elements within the KKK attempted to move away from nativism to a
broad working class radicalism. What is overtly racist about this? The
article isn't even a theoretical one but almost purely historical. Seeing as
how this was written shortly after Zerzan stopped working as a union
organizer my geuss is that he was trying to draw a parallel between the
KKK of the twenties and various union-movements of his particular time.
http://www.insurgentdesire.org.uk/kkk.htm
One direction, Trans and Queer insurrection: A reportback from the Bash Back! convergence
Authored by: Admin on Tuesday, April 15 2008 @ 09:28 PM UTC
Zerzan's article on the KKK is not racist! I haven't read it in many years, but I remember it as simply analyzing the KKK's history.

I know that a few anarchists complain about this article, but I think that they are using it as a red herring in order to attack Zerzan instead of dealing directly with any of his writings.

Chuck0
One direction, Trans and Queer insurrection: A reportback from the Bash Back! convergence
Authored by: augustcjohnson on Monday, April 14 2008 @ 11:42 AM UTC
This is all well and good, no one seems to questioning your basic
request: that racism is inherent in all aspects of our culture, including
activist/radical culture and it most be confronted as much there as
anywhere. What i am questioning is your reasoning behind this particular
zine. As you say other topics were brought up at this caucus and
resolved. One of them being these anti-RNC stickers with the oppressive
images on them. You clearly stated why you think they are oppressive
and my understanding is that this has been settled by the Milwaukee
anarchists who have ceased its distribution. But you never stated why
you consider "Go Light" to be oppressive, you simply stated that you
want anyone distributing it to "stop immediately". How are we to take
this seriously? You give no reasoning behind your call for a ban until
now. The reason this discussion has become public is because you
made it public. You're not the Politburo and you can't expect people to
follow you blindly. Furthermore, certain distributors of "Go Light", KT in
particular, have defended this zine and believe that you have a
fundamental misunderstanding of its content. Let's stay on track.
One direction, Trans and Queer insurrection: A reportback from the Bash Back! convergence
Authored by: f xx f y on Monday, April 14 2008 @ 10:44 AM UTC
i mean, i guess a lot of it has to do with how you look at it. i find a lot of "primitivist" literature to come off as really arrogant and has incredibly oversimplified analyses of the human social order. i feel like the misanthropy that often comes with the advocation of the destruction of all aspects of modern life in favor of non-human life doesn't take into account that there's a hell of a lot of people struggling to stay alive and not everybody has "modern conveniences" and knick knacks and a whole lot of people are really fucking cool and on our side for destroying capitalism. also, i find the idea of ecological/economic collapse to be shortsighted as a hell of a lot of people have already experienced these concepts in small doses. hurricane katrina was, for some people, exactly that.

i feel like the self-righteous disregarding of social organization includes a lack of concern about systemic oppression. the blame is put entirely on the existence of a rarely (if ever) defined "civilization" when it is far more specific than that.

maybe this isn't the place to discuss or debate this but i guess i did bring it up. whoops.
One direction, Trans and Queer insurrection: A reportback from the Bash Back! convergence
Authored by: augustcjohnson on Monday, April 14 2008 @ 11:53 AM UTC
Most anti-civ and primitivist literature is one long attempt at explaining
what exactly civilization is. In the case of John Zerzan, that's all he ever
writes about. What is civilization? What are the particular conditions of
civilization? What are the origins of civilization? What are the effects of
civilization? And so on.
The crisis of Hurricane Katrina is a great example of the condition of
civilization and the effects it wields on the most stratified members of our
society.
One direction, Trans and Queer insurrection: A reportback from the Bash Back! convergence
Authored by: f xx f y on Monday, April 14 2008 @ 12:03 PM UTC
well, i guess that must be where i'm losing it is that i've found myself generally unable to palate the things i've read by john zerzan. i dont really want to clog up infoshop with a discussion this off-topic, though!
One direction, Trans and Queer insurrection: A reportback from the Bash Back! convergence
Authored by: HPWombat on Monday, April 14 2008 @ 03:36 PM UTC
That was a delicious read.

---
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One direction, Trans and Queer insurrection: A reportback from the Bash Back! convergence
Authored by: MagonistaRevolt on Tuesday, April 15 2008 @ 07:36 AM UTC
Kevin Tucker is ridiculous. His response is a long rant that, condensed, reads: I can't be a white supremacist because I have gained enlightenment from my ideology as a primitivist that makes me totally color blind. Any person of color that calls me racist is dumb because they don't put my white supremacist actions in a fantasy context that I have created where there is no racism.

"images of animals in factory farms or steel traps only adds to their
exploitation." Well, it might. You haven't taken the time to consult with them about it, because, frankly, you can't. You can, however, consult with people about whether they want their images used in your contexts. And the zine's authors have neglected to do so out of a lack of respect. And you refuse to hear the protest against their misuse of images, choosing instead to declare yourself holier than thou by talking about how primal and wild you are.

What an asshole. The people who are affected by your decisions are speaking out against your decisions, and you close your ears and scream loudly about primitives and how just you are.
One direction, Trans and Queer insurrection: A reportback from the Bash Back! convergence
Authored by: lawrence on Tuesday, April 15 2008 @ 08:55 PM UTC
First things first: I have little patience for much of Tucker's rambling primitivist musings. I find them to be (like most primitivist writing) repetitious, meandering (verging on the incoherent), and decidedly unispiring. Okay, that's out of the way.

You have done precisely what Kevin and others rightly imply: jump to conclusions based on an essentialist position which comes down to, "I can't possibly be wrong on any subject relating to POCs because as a POC, no white person can tell me what's what." But a stupid perspective is stupid on its own (lack of) merits, not because of the self- (imposed?)identity of the person holding it. The possibility that folks at the POC caucus could be mistaken about anything (and not just the content of some graphics) seems to have passed you by.

The first refuge of the race essentialist is to racist-bait any and all critics. It's not that Tucker has a different analysis based on his many years of studying anthropology (not the most defensible social science to be sure, connected as it is with the history of colonialism--but that's a separate topic), but that he's a racist for daring to call into question some comments he finds faulty.

Isn't it possible that maybe, just maybe, some APOC discourse relies too heavily on the terms of (Maoist) identity politics, (liberal/NGO) activism, and (authoritarian) nationalism? Isn't it possible that maybe, just maybe, a coherent anarchist critique of these positions has little or nothing to do with the cultural conditioning of bigotry, and much or everything to do with traditional anarchist objections to them?
One direction, Trans and Queer insurrection: A reportback from the Bash Back! convergence
Authored by: Admin on Tuesday, April 15 2008 @ 09:37 PM UTC

Isn't it possible that maybe, just maybe, some APOC discourse relies too heavily on the terms of (Maoist) identity politics, (liberal/NGO) activism, and (authoritarian) nationalism? Isn't it possible that maybe, just maybe, a coherent anarchist critique of these positions has little or nothing to do with the cultural conditioning of bigotry, and much or everything to do with traditional anarchist objections to them?

Yes. If anarchist pocs and others wonder why there has been a strong reaction to some of the rhetoric coming out of the APOC movement, it's because some of us are calling out the elements of this discourse which aren't anarchist and are conscious or unconscious reframing of neo-Maoist and left liberal identity politics.

I'm a big supporter of the APOC movement and I'm excited about what people in that movement are saying and doing. But I think one of the best things I can do, when I'm not posting announcements and texts from the movement, is to share my critical opinions. My own political practice often strays too far into the liberal/NGO activist camp, so I'm always happy to hear from people who criticize my writing or actions.

Chuck0

One direction, Trans and Queer insurrection: A reportback from the Bash Back! convergence
Authored by: MagonistaRevolt on Friday, April 18 2008 @ 08:37 AM UTC
No. You seem to have me mistaken for someone else. I can see the bald-faced racism in a white person telling a person of color that what they consider to be racism isn't racism at all, so they should shut up and take more of it. But I myself am not a person of color.

If this was put in the context of another oppression, perhaps you might balk as well. If it were upskirt photos printed from the internet instead of pictures of "primitives" taken from anthropology textbooks, and feminists were outraged, would you spend your time denouncing the feminists? Who the fuck does things like this? People who haven't engaged at all the present series of oppressions, and prefer to hearken back to a fantasy utopia before civilization do these things.

The anarchist, by the very politics that motivate her, should look to oppressed people for initiative, not to their oppressors. So why should I look to Kevin Tucker, the white dude spouting racist bullshit and bragging about being "colorblind" instead of the people affected by the oppression of racism? Especially when I know that the people affected are fellow anarchists who are attempting to carve a space for themselves within the anarchist struggle?

I am glad that this discussion is being raised. Perhaps it will encourage people to do more collective liberation work to distance themselves from the entitlement and bravado of Kevin Tucker and his ilk.
One direction, Trans and Queer insurrection: A reportback from the Bash Back! convergence
Authored by: Admin on Friday, April 18 2008 @ 09:17 AM UTC
Speaking for myself, I would criticize the feminists over your hypothetical situation. I'm feminist for starters, so I understand that there are many takes on feminism, so it's impossible to have a "party line" on the use of such imagery. I have also long been familiar with the importance of being sensitive in the use of imagery. People may not have noticed, but we've taken great care here at Infoshop News when it comes to selecting images for this service.

On the other hand, if somebody was using an upskirt photo in some zine, that isn't automatically sexist. There are plenty of men and women out there, including feminists, who are into that kind of thing. Sometimes I get the impression that some militant feminism merges into bizarre prudery.

I think that it's important to be sensitive towards other people when you use imagery. Some people, such as this zine author, may not be very conscious of these issues, so that's why a discussion should take place. Political correctness enters this situation when judgmental people think that their position is the correct one and that they have a right to do things like "holding him accountable" when things are more subjective.

Chuck0
One direction, Trans and Queer insurrection: A reportback from the Bash Back! convergence
Authored by: MagonistaRevolt on Friday, April 18 2008 @ 03:15 PM UTC
"On the other hand, if somebody was using an upskirt photo in some zine, that isn't automatically sexist."

I tried to use an example of something that was taken without the consent of the subject, and furthermore, taken from a website and put in a different context. I guess I failed.

I don't have more to say than I have. I hope people are more ready to hear criticism about things like racism and sexism, especially from those who are most affected by these oppressions than has been evidenced in this thread. I hope that if it is not the case, that people make collective liberation a focus of their learning and growing as anarchists.
One direction, Trans and Queer insurrection: A reportback from the Bash Back! convergence
Authored by: lawrence on Friday, April 18 2008 @ 06:52 PM UTC
Hearing criticism about racism and sexism (presumably that they are unfortunately part of our movements) is not the same as being told we are sexist or racist for questioning the authoritarian prescriptions and proscriptions of the so-called solutions to the existence of racism and sexism in our movements. The way things are usually presented -- and this thread is certainly no exception -- is that there are bad people on one side (in this case anarchists who have been determined to have transgressed), and good people on the other (in this case, POCs). The extension of this essentialist perspective is that nothing the POCs say or do can possibly be objectionable. That is offensive in itself, but not nearly as offensive as your proclamation that anarchists need to look to POCs (and other people automatically placed in the category of oppressed victim) for initiative in our struggles against hierarchy, domination, capitalism, the state. And I had always stupidly thought that anarchists look to themselves for that initiative, seeing as how we foster and celebrate direct action. I guess that's just naive sentimentality and has nothing to do with anarchist principles...
One direction, Trans and Queer insurrection: A reportback from the Bash Back! convergence
Authored by: duh on Sunday, April 20 2008 @ 08:50 AM UTC
-i think you absolutely should factor in who best argument along with a persons identity (scope of influence/ability empathize)
-i think you should be wary of vanguard groups and actions that stray into liberal essentialist/ngo pressure group/maoist authoritarian camps

could you answer these questions? i think they might tell me a lot about you..
-do you have a problem with upskirt photos?
-do you have a problem with pictures of primitives?
One direction, Trans and Queer insurrection: A reportback from the Bash Back! convergence
Authored by: HPWombat on Monday, April 14 2008 @ 03:31 PM UTC
Yeah...a review might be better. APOC might consider the implications of their caucuses. Does APOC want to reify poc resistance by acting as the vanguard of poc? Oppression does not make anyone exempt from representing struggle. Some that identify with APOC have proven to be a voice of pan-nationalism and some seem to want to present APOC as an activist pressure group within this scene.

Perhaps some APOC's calls for separate struggle should be followed up on and a real move against white activist racism would be to stop channeling poc struggle into reified modes of activity. Break the cycle of insular activism by critically considering a full separation and agitate in more subjective areas with/toward other poc and press for an end to compromising with the controllers, oppressors and exploitors that dominate our society.

The fight for dignity is false, there is no safety in a society controlled, the intervention of capitalism, including that of the state, is material before it is political. The racism of capitalist domination will destroy any place of "dignity" created by activism when "dignity" no longer serves its purpose as a control mechanism by those with power.

---
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One direction, Trans and Queer insurrection: A reportback from the Bash Back! convergence
Authored by: commie on Tuesday, April 15 2008 @ 07:28 AM UTC
honestly, youre post confuses me a bit. but, among other things, we did and do discuss issues that you mention, and we have plenty of disagreement within our caucuses too, sometimes. which is healthy, and exciting and great to me.

you have to understand, our main reason for caucuses is for a safe space. read the EF! apoc caucus reportback, or any number of others.

and i greatly disagree with your proclamation that "The fight for dignity is false". but thats another story all together.

---
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http://factionalist.blogspot.com
One direction, Trans and Queer insurrection: A reportback from the Bash Back! convergence
Authored by: HPWombat on Tuesday, April 15 2008 @ 02:02 PM UTC
A safe space? What? In the white activist community? Don't women report rapes, assaults and molestations all the time from this community? Why pressure white activists when they should be abandoned altogether if social resistance is to move? And I mean this not just as an abandonment of whiteness, but also activism.

Secondly, there is NO safety in capitalism. This is poc activists sticking their heads in the sand and complaining about the petty while their communities are ravaged by oppression. APOC isn't a movement, it is a political identity that very few people take and is exclusive not on the basis of tasks, but of race. APOC will never be able to save poc from systematic racism nor can they resist racism as "white activist" immitators.

Thirdly, dignity in capitalism is politically motivated. Politics are based on justifying the actions of those with material power. Last time I checked, poc's are more excluded from material power than other exploited people...what makes you think an actual safe space (as opposed to the delusion of safety) can be created for poc's if regular people can't even enjoy this supposed safety? Is it safety from mass society you seek? Is that why APOC seeks to perpetuate the immitation of white activism? Is this an attempt to create a "safe space" like the police create protest pens to keep the protestors "safe"? How is this safe place relevant to everyday life?

---
Think your shit don't stink? Come over to anti-politics.net/forum for a critical discussion on how irrelevant you really are.
One direction, Trans and Queer insurrection: A reportback from the Bash Back! convergence
Authored by: duh on Sunday, April 20 2008 @ 08:52 AM UTC
are you being intentionally dense to play devils advocates or are you really confused about the context of "safe space"? have you really never heard reasons why "safe spaces" are useful?
One direction, Trans and Queer insurrection: A reportback from the Bash Back! convergence
Authored by: HPWombat on Sunday, April 20 2008 @ 09:39 AM UTC
"Overall, activist scenes are no safe space for women because misogynists and abusive men exist within them. More, many of these abusers use the language, tools of activism and support by other activists as means to abuse women and conceal their behavior. And unfortunately, in a lot of political circles, regardless of how much we talk about patriarchy or misogyny, women are sacrificed in order to keep up
One direction, Trans and Queer insurrection: A reportback from the Bash Back! convergence
Authored by: Kevin Tucker on Sunday, April 20 2008 @ 08:54 AM UTC
From the big bad guy himself.

I'm not getting involved with this. There's no "conversation" here, there's no "argument", I responded to a ludicrous piece of shit write up/off about a zine that I strongly uphold. Did APOC even read the fucking zine? The majority of it is straight up photocopies from anthropology and primitive skills books/magazines. But it's important information.
IT'S ABOUT CHILDREN, FAMILIES, NOT RACE. Plain and simple.
And if you think this is fringe anthropology, then maybe you should look into it and see the shit is MAINSTREAM ANTHROPOLOGY before you just make conclusions off what you think.

If you want to mish mash some petty bullshit beef with primitivism and some very thinly veiled Maoist/Marxist CRAPOLA about the oppressiveness of ALL FAMILY UNITS what does that have to do with RACE? Read the fucking zine.

And I can say I'm not a fucking racist or white supremacist. You can toss those words out because you're "non-white"? Sorry, but it's not a magic term that you hold the key for. You're making SHITTY ACCUSATIONS and backing them up with some argument against primitivism. I'm not shutting down "non-whites" here, I'm saying THERE IS NO ARGUMENT HERE and THESE ACCUSATIONS ARE BULLSHIT.
Do these people know me? FUCK NO. Do they want me to run down a list of "non-white" friends who can vouch for me? Do they want me to run down an "activist history"? Fuck all these bullshit freshman hazing games. I've been in the mix for a long time and I'll still be here. I've got NOTHING TO PROVE TO SOME COLLEGE KIDS WHO'LL DROP OUT OF THE SCENE BEFORE THEIR GRADUATION HAT HITS THE GROUND.

"Especially when I know that the people affected are fellow anarchists who are attempting to carve a space for themselves within the anarchist struggle?"
Carve a space or a name? Or carve my name out? Get your agenda straight.

There's real shit going on in this world. A zine, a sticker, are you even thinking or are you too busy playing "anarchists" while patting the back of a fucking politician for being transgendered.

But my question remains, what is so fucking racist here? And how am I a fucking racist for standing up for something that IS CLEARLY NOT RACIST. And I tell you what, a guy who's spent the last DECADE writing about indigenous societies, doing support work, and BASHING any kind of imperialist bullshit (pro-tech, pro-progress BULLSHIT) must be a WHITE SUPREMACIST. If anything, the half decade prior to that where I was caught up in red anarchist shit I was probably doing worse cause I wasn't working to stop the real problem: CIVILIZATION.
Fucking MORONS.

Think about the words you use instead of just tossing them out like they were nothing. Bragging about being "color blind", HA. I have nothing to prove, you have the burden of proving that I do see race when I point to indigenous societies.

And am I a fucking BIG BAD WHITE MAN for saying to whoever (non-whites apparently included) that I'm not racist or that this is not A RACE ISSUE? Think whatever the fuck you want, but if you use those words, I'm not TAKING IT LIGHTLY, even if this "argument" is a FUCKING JOKE.

FOR WILDNESS,
KT
One direction, Trans and Queer insurrection: A reportback from the Bash Back! convergence
Authored by: duh on Sunday, April 20 2008 @ 09:23 AM UTC
ask yourself: do you disagree with any of these points:
1-the authors of Go Light hold up primitive cultures over civilized cultures
2-the authors of Go Light used images of primitives because they are referencing primitive cultures
3-american pocs may not know the interests of poc in other regions of the world
4-skin color does not automatically unify across language, oceans, resources, heritage, and experiences
5-all races have just as many issues with sexism, class, and heterosexism, and speciesism
6-the term wild child is used because the authors are presumable speaking to an audience for whom wildness is definitely not the norm
7-wildness, a term that carries varied colloquial meanings, has long been used by primitives (and most ecologists) as it relates to natural animality
8-primitives uphold the fact humans are animals and they believe that humans are not the most special animals in the animal kingdom
9-the title Go Light speaks to how primitive cultures are, depending who you are, either deprived of resources by civilized cultures or that they live within their means for ecological longevity
10-a book about mbuti peoples cannot show that "traditional African family life" is "repressive"


i'm black/female/little queer/working class caribbean heritage/middle class american: my personal opinion:
1-all civilized peopleexposed to cultural cues are racist ... xenophobia is much more relevant
2-some identity groups are more dangerous because of their scope of influence or inability empathize/ignorance
3-the term "family unit" is irrelevant in the discussion of many primitive cultures
4-while civilization is around kevin tucker is more concerned with ecological oppression than the oppression of individuals
5-it's fun to be at the top of that pyramid when your living in a primitive culture
6-fraudulent references, ad hominem attacks, and intentionally confusing wordplay are just as annoying as american apocs holding themselves as the "most oppressed," people silencing/not engaging criticism, and people who don't self-educate
7-we may need new words for civilized and primitive because they carry so much baggage
8-"PC" (political correctness) is an IRRELEVANT TERM used to describe nonexistant things and everyone on Earth should stop using it immediately
9-this isn't the sort of demand that "other must meet" for there to be "Liberation." (50 of them wouldn't prevent it either)
10-it is more democratic/anarchist/productive/educational/inspiring to publish a criticism than to "make a demand" to "disappear" a zine
One direction, Trans and Queer insurrection: A reportback from the Bash Back! convergence
Authored by: HPWombat on Sunday, April 20 2008 @ 10:04 AM UTC
"2-some identity groups are more dangerous because of their scope of influence or inability empathize/ignorance"

How about "all identity groups are dangerous to each other because of their scope of influence or inability empathize/ignorance." Your "more" is not concerned about the nature of racism in the present, but rather defining your enemy.

Its not "some"...its "they" as in "they are more dangerous because of their scope of influence" which recognizes that your identity isn't a victim and can (and has) exhibited power historically in a variety of contexts, individually and socially. Prescriptive solutions are better than moral ones, which your points seem to be an attempt to move towards and I applaud your attempt.

"3-the term "family unit" is irrelevant in the discussion of many primitive cultures"

I don't know about that and why this is important to challenging primitivists is beyond me. The civilized, in the present, are breaking down this "family unit" which has been the base unit for all historic oppressions from all civilized cultures. Why it is being fetished here by you is beyond me, radicals from all walks of life have challenged the family unit.

"4-while civilization is around kevin tucker is more concerned with ecological oppression than the oppression of individuals"

Not to speak for kt, but...why are you speaking for kt? What does "more concerned" mean in the context of fighting a resistance to oppression? Does it mean he isn't concerned with your strategy, which is hidden behind layers of victimized jargon? Your concerns for judging his behavior are unfounded.

"5-it's fun to be at the top of that pyramid when your living in a primitive culture"

Let me refer you to my response to point 2: "all identity groups are dangerous to each other because of their scope of influence or inability empathize/ignorance." This is an expresssion of your inability to empathize and an expression of moralistic ignorance.

"6-fraudulent references, ad hominem attacks, and intentionally confusing wordplay are just as annoying as american apocs holding themselves as the "most oppressed," people silencing/not engaging criticism, and people who don't self-educate"

more moralism...my response: pot kettle black...


---
Think your shit don't stink? Come over to anti-politics.net/forum for a critical discussion on how irrelevant you really are.
One direction, Trans and Queer insurrection: A reportback from the Bash Back! convergence
Authored by: duh on Sunday, April 20 2008 @ 11:12 AM UTC
So first off: thank you for responding. However, almost nothing you write makes sense to me. But I will attempt to respond to what I think you're trying to communicate, and I am perhaps more willing than some to make concessions and change my mind.

2
-i believe that the groups with more influence are more dangerous
-i'm dealing on a spectrum basis
-believe "some" is more general and "they" is too specific
-in this way, i recognize that my various identity groups can be included in "some," (but not in "they")

3
-it wasn't a fetishism or a criticism of primitivists, but a response to:"foreign, non-industrialized family unit" in the criticism of the zine.
-i think i wanted to point out that not all cultures operate on a "family unit" basis, but
:i don't even know if "family unit" has too limited a definition
:i don't know if the zine deals with groups that don't operate ona "family unit" basis

4
-i thought ecological balance was the number one concern of primitivists?(they believe civilization causes all oppressions)
-do primitivist fight all oppressions on all fronts equally?(i don't think ecological balance necessitates egalitarianism)
-i am not speaking for kevin tucker because prefaced all of my second set of points with "my opinion"
-what is my strategy? what victimized jargon?

5
-refer to my response to your response for point 2
-my idea is that those at the top of the pyramid have greater influence (i concede that 'pyramid' is a poor metaphor)
-huh? empathize with whom?
-what? moralistic?

6
-are you saying that "annoying" is a moralistic judgment? do you not find those things annoying?
-i could have said good/wrong/evil, but i just said that i'm annoyed!


**sorry for double posting, mistake...i hope one gets deleted
One direction, Trans and Queer insurrection: A reportback from the Bash Back! convergence
Authored by: HPWombat on Monday, April 21 2008 @ 05:53 AM UTC
"-i believe that the groups with more influence are more dangerous"

What are your thoughts on capitalism? I tend to think systems of power and influence are the most dangerous. A better way of asking is: how does capitalism frame struggle?

"-in this way, i recognize that my various identity groups can be included in "some," (but not in "they")"

Why remove your subjectivity? The definition of "poc" is dialectical to white people...or those without color. If poc is defined in relation to white people, it is a matter of "us" and "them".

"-i thought ecological balance was the number one concern of primitivists?(they believe civilization causes all oppressions)"

Its not. That is "deep ecology". Primitivists are concerned about primitives, primitivists, how the civilized totality affects the world, the "natural" state of humanity (i.e. human nature) and opposing civilization no matter what form it takes. Primitivists aren't an activist group, they are anarchists for a less civilized / more primitive society.

"-do primitivist fight all oppressions on all fronts equally?(i don't think ecological balance necessitates egalitarianism)"

primitivists can fight the same fights that anarchist communists fight, but with different intentions.

"-my idea is that those at the top of the pyramid have greater influence (i concede that 'pyramid' is a poor metaphor)"

It is a poor methaphor and its part of the problem. All this vague positioning avoids handling radical problems.

"-are you saying that "annoying" is a moralistic judgment? do you not find those things annoying?"

that is your subjective opinion. I am not annoyed by pocs thinking they are the most oppressed...typically they are easier to agitate because we already agree that things are fucked up. I am not annoyed by logical fallacies, I find them to be illogical and full of poor reasoning. What's the difference between annoyed and evil? Can there be a large annoyance that is a small evil? I'd say no as far as how my logic work, but if a moralistic judgement was made, then I'd say the two terms have comparable definitions in this situation.

---
Think your shit don't stink? Come over to anti-politics.net/forum for a critical discussion on how irrelevant you really are.
One direction, Trans and Queer insurrection: A reportback from the Bash Back! convergence
Authored by: duh on Sunday, April 20 2008 @ 09:18 AM UTC
ask yourself: do you disagree with any of these points:

1-the authors of Go Light hold up primitive cultures over civilized cultures
2-the authors of Go Light used images of primitives because they are referencing primitive cultures
3-american pocs may not know the interests of poc in other regions of the world
4-skin color does not automatically unify across language, oceans, resources, heritage, and experiences
5-all races have just as many issues with sexism, class, and heterosexism, and speciesism
6-the term wild child is used because the authors are presumable speaking to an audience for whom wildness is definitely not the norm
7-wildness, a term that carries varied colloquial meanings, has long been used by primitives (and most ecologists) as it relates to natural animality
8-primitives uphold the fact humans are animals and they believe that humans are not the most special animals in the animal kingdom
9-the title Go Light speaks to how primitive cultures are, depending who you are, either deprived of resources by civilized cultures or that they live within their means for ecological longevity
10-a book about mbuti peoples cannot show that "traditional African family life" is "repressive"


i'm black/female/little queer/working class caribbean heritage/middle class american: my personal opinion:

1-all civilized people are racist exposed to cultural cues... xenophobia is much more relevant
2-some identity groups are more dangerous because of their scope of influence or inability empathize/ignorance
3-the term "family unit" is irrelevant in the discussion of many primitive cultures
4-while civilization is around kevin tucker is more concerned with ecological oppression than the oppression of individuals
5-it's fun to be at the top of that pyramid when your living in a primitive culture
6-fraudulent references, personal attacks, and intentionally confusing wordplay are just as annoying as american apocs holding themselves as the "most oppressed," people silencing/not engaging criticism, and people who don't self-educate
7-we may need new words for civilized and primitive because they carry so much baggage
8-"PC" (political correctness) is an IRRELEVANT TERM used to describe nonexistant things and everyone on Earth should stop using it immediately
9-this isn't the sort of demand that "other must meet" for there to be "Liberation." (50 of them wouldn't prevent it either)
10-it is more democratic/anarchist/productive/educational/inspiring to publish a criticism than to "make a demand" to "disappear" a zine
One direction, Trans and Queer insurrection: A reportback from the Bash Back! convergence
Authored by: xfull of spitex on Wednesday, April 23 2008 @ 04:11 PM UTC
i seriously can't believe any of this.

first off, anti-civ and primitivist critique uses the examples present in various hunter-gatherer cultures as evidence of how non-civilized life is. naturally they would use images of these same bands/tribes in their zines. from what i understand, this caucus is saying that they are racist because they use images of a culture that exists, just because those within that culture have dark skin? absolutely ridiculous.

then you assume those writing zines like Go Light, running distros like Longing for Collapse and Black and Green, and espousing primitivist views are all white, heterosexual, and male. i don't even know what to say about that. it's not only fucking ridiculous, but it's completely untrue.

lastly, this whole thing is absurd. your only defense when attacked for your short-sighted, pro-civilization, nitpicking bullshit is that those attacking you are privileged. don't even pretend to represent any number of queers, wimmin, or people of color, because every non-white, non-male, non-straight kid i've shown this to thinks your caucus and the things it says are idiotic.

i'm really happy that all your boring caucus is ever going to do is blog about nothing . i plan on getting a copy of Go Light and adding it to my distro. keep it up nerds.

- a queer as fuck primitivist